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View Full Version : mozilla vs scroll bar decoration



se4b4ss
Sep 11th, 2004, 06:00 PM
any idea why mozilla scroll bars arent being decorated with this code?

link to code (http://www.texascontractorratings.com/dev/spish/portfolio/bigfrog2/)



<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>frog</TITLE>
<style type="text/css">
body {
text-align: center;
background: #000000;
font-family: trebuchet ms;
color: #ddd;
}

.container {
width: 750px;
margin: 0 auto;
}

.main {
width: 450px;
height: 203px;
overflow: auto;
background: #000000;
scrollbar-face-color:#FFBD00;
scrollbar-highlight-color:#FFDF83;
scrollbar-3dlight-color:#E2A700;
scrollbar-shadow-color:#FFCF46;
scrollbar-darkshadow-color:#E2A700;
scrollbar-track-color:#000;
scrollbar-arrow-color:#FFDF83;
}

p {
font-size: 12px;
margin-right: 8px;
}

h1 {
font-size: 15px;
}

a {
color: #65A036;
text-decoration: none;
}

</style>
</HEAD>
<BODY BGCOLOR=#FFFFFF LEFTMARGIN=0 TOPMARGIN=0 MARGINWIDTH=0 MARGINHEIGHT=0>
<div class="container">
<TABLE WIDTH=750 BORDER=0 CELLPADDING=0 CELLSPACING=0>
<TR>
<TD COLSPAN=3><IMG SRC="images/frog_01.jpg" WIDTH=750 HEIGHT=282 ALT=""></TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD>
<IMG SRC="images/frog_02.jpg" WIDTH=113 HEIGHT=203 ALT=""></TD>
<td width="450" height="203">
<div class="main">
<h1>Home</h1>
<p>Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, <a href="#">consectetuer</a> adipiscing elit, sed diam nonummy nibh euismod tincidunt ut laoreet dolore magna aliquam erat volutpat. Ut wisi enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exerci tation ullamcorper suscipit lobortis nisl ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis autem vel eum iriure dolor in hendrerit in vulputate.</p>
<p>Consectetuer adipiscing elit, sed diam nonummy nibh euismod tincidunt ut laoreet dolore magna aliquam erat volutpat. Ut wisi enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exerci tation ullamcorper suscipit lobortis nisl ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis autem vel eum iriure dolor in hendrerit in vulputate.</p>
</div>
</td>
<TD>
<IMG SRC="images/frog_04.jpg" WIDTH=187 HEIGHT=203 ALT=""></TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD COLSPAN=3>
<IMG SRC="images/frog_05.jpg" WIDTH=750 HEIGHT=65 ALT=""></TD>
</TR>
</TABLE>
</div>
</BODY>
</HTML>


thanks in advance,
steve

gohankid77
Sep 11th, 2004, 06:10 PM
Because changing the color of scrollbars is something the makers of Internet Explorer added in (and Konqueror apparently).

http://webdesign.about.com/library/weekly/aa082602b.htm

These are NOT in the W3C CSS recommendations or the working drafts at all, so they will not validate (not properly anyway).

oracleguy
Sep 11th, 2004, 08:37 PM
These are NOT in the W3C CSS recommendations or the working drafts at all, so they will not validate (not properly anyway).

That's why it isn't supported in Mozilla, and there isn't much of a reason for it to be.

AaronW
Sep 11th, 2004, 09:22 PM
Shame though. I've always felt that scrollbars should be as styleable as the <input> tags. Background, margins, borders, padding, size, etc. Could be made a toggleable option in the useragents, but it'd allow for more interesting designs without having to write hundreds of lines of javascript to simulate your own.

I don't care what colour the actual parent document scrollbars are, but I despise seeing the ugly purple bars in my otherwise dark design when I use overflow: scroll on a <div>. I should have control of that.

Thoughts?

gohankid77
Sep 11th, 2004, 09:57 PM
It is a kind of privacy issue. Like in Windows, you can change the colors manually, or by using a theme. The WWW has a lot of security holes, so it is not always a good thing. IMO, Microsoft is so busy with thinking of addins for its browser that it makes it too much of a hassle to test everything for standards-compliance. This is why the 3 pixel bug, among others, occur!

bradyj
Sep 12th, 2004, 09:31 AM
...but I despise seeing the ugly purple bars in my otherwise dark design when I use overflow: scroll on a <div>. I should have control of that.

Thoughts?

Buy a mac so they look like beautiful gel aqua bars :D

I would like interior scrollbars to be able to be adjusted, not the exterior main document... however, I do think that it would annoy me as a user, so overtime I've just allowed it to let go as an issue for me.

AaronW
Sep 12th, 2004, 01:34 PM
I don't need to drop three grand on a computer to have blue aqua bars :P WindowBlinds'll do that for me.

The point is, bars of any colour other than black/grey look hideous in an otherwise black/grey layout.

Internal bars should be completely styleable... External... Well that's that debatable.

liorean
Sep 12th, 2004, 01:38 PM
One of the problems with this is that the W3C didn't want to define user interfaces. Not at all. (Though that sentiment is sadly fading away today.) One of the reasons for this is that, taking scrolling for example, scrollbars are not the canonical way of representing scrolling. There is no canonical way. Say a program uses a scrolling mechanism that autoscrolls when you place the pointer at the top or bottom of the box - then scrollbar colouring would be useless. Say you are using a keyboard-only interface - then scrollbars may or may not be useful. Say you have a built in scrolling mechanism in your PDA, that does not conform to the scrollbar interface - then your scrollbar is useless. Same goes for form controls etc. That's the reason the W3C doesn't specify user interface - user interface isn't given to conform to the same conventions on all devices and platforms.

AaronW
Sep 12th, 2004, 02:02 PM
Perhaps the standard for in-document scrolling on the Web should be a scrollbar?

liorean
Sep 12th, 2004, 03:35 PM
When only a minority of the presentation models for the web even are both visual and interactive, two requirements for inline scrolling? Come on. If it doesn't work in either Aural, TTY or Print media, there is not much reason to standardise the interface. If you standardise it, it gotta be device independent in such a way that it at least covers the entire spectrum of interactive media.

gsnedders
Sep 12th, 2004, 04:53 PM
Buy a mac so they look like beautiful gel aqua bars :D

Not in Netscape and Mozilla... ;) or a pre-OS X OS :p

gohankid77
Sep 12th, 2004, 05:25 PM
I've seen OSX and the scrollbars are awesome, but I do like the fact that someone doesn't change my scrollbars, though (Firefox). It's like somebody is inside your computer messing with your settings WITHOUT YOUR PERMISSION. It makes me feel like it is an invasion of privacy.

mcdougals4all
Sep 12th, 2004, 07:15 PM
Opera also accepts scrollbar styling if you have it enabled.

bradyj
Sep 12th, 2004, 09:18 PM
Opera also accepts scrollbar styling if you have it enabled.

Really? Now that IS backwards -- Opera is one of the more aggressive ones in the game that doesn't even allow certain styling to form elements like the others. Is that all versions of Opera (the latest?), that's weird.

And, you're right about the scrollbars -- only Safari and Mac IE... oh, and OmniWeb now. Opera/Firefox have something completely different and lame.

liorean
Sep 12th, 2004, 09:45 PM
Really? Now that IS backwards -- Opera is one of the more aggressive ones in the game that doesn't even allow certain styling to form elements like the others. Is that all versions of Opera (the latest?), that's weird.That's a performance issue and not a design choice. Using the OS built in form controls was simply far more efficient. (That's why Chimaera was so much faster than Mozilla originally, too. Forefox has eaten that performance difference entirely by a better internal organisation, though.) Anyway, styling for form fields is not covered by HTML or CSS standards, so that's quite okay.
And, you're right about the scrollbars -- only Safari and Mac IE... oh, and OmniWeb now. Opera/Firefox have something completely different and lame.What? Op7.54 and moz1.7/ff0.9.3 use the standard OS scrollbars unless you use a theme that provides it's own scrollbars. This is a change I actually dislike on Windows (moz and op both had better scrollbars originally) but find quite okay on the Mac.

bradyj
Sep 12th, 2004, 10:07 PM
Wait a minute, you're right -- it was only my theme... it's been a while since I've gone themeless... my fault:) Good catch!

mcdougals4all
Sep 13th, 2004, 02:48 AM
Opera version 7.23 under:

File >> Preferences >> Page Style...

...allows enabling of styles for scrollbars and forms.

liorean
Sep 13th, 2004, 03:05 AM
And in more recent Opera versions "Tools:Preferences:Page Style:Enable styling of scrollbars". Trust me, there's a world of difference between op7.2* and op7.53, and there's a good deal of under-the-hood improvements in the still to be released 7.60.

mcdougals4all
Sep 13th, 2004, 03:07 AM
I guess it's time for me to update.

]|V|[agnus
Sep 13th, 2004, 05:39 PM
So How Can I Color My Scrollbars For All Browsers

Code Plz Thx Bi

Roy Sinclair
Sep 13th, 2004, 07:41 PM
|V|[agnus']So How Can I Color My Scrollbars For All Browsers

Code Plz Thx Bi

You can't (which is different than saying you shouldn't).

]|V|[agnus
Sep 13th, 2004, 07:50 PM
You can't (which is different than saying you shouldn't).

Ahahaha... (Which is another way of saying, I was joking...)