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KevinS
Sep 16th, 2010, 07:07 AM
Should I invest in Dreamweaver to start writing HTML code for my site? Can I rely on the hosting provider to give me some HTML tools also?

hitek
Sep 16th, 2010, 08:13 AM
I also use this tool. Or you may also use FrontPage.

Dormilich
Sep 16th, 2010, 09:06 AM
Notepad++ is a freely available tool to create HTML code (and others).

Doctor_Varney
Sep 16th, 2010, 10:57 AM
No! Complete waste of money. A good code editor is all you need and there are many open source ones available.

Dreamweaver will get you started with very bad habits.

Dr. V

Pepineros
Sep 16th, 2010, 02:52 PM
I second Dr. V here. I use Notepad++ for coding, but that's mainly because I code several different languages. There are good open-source code editors focused on web design, too. Site hosts usually have some service to 'start creating your own homepage', which apparently you can do 'in just a few clicks', which is obviously useless, so I'd advise against using those. Get some nice, basic html and css tutorials, and you'll find that actually coding the site can be as much (or even more) fun as seeing the finished product. Happy coding :)

Jer
Sep 16th, 2010, 03:05 PM
The only thing you need is xaamp and notepad++. DV said it right, nothing but bad habits lurk behind Dreamweaver (for the beginner that is).

Doctor_Varney
Sep 16th, 2010, 04:06 PM
If you're going to invest in anything, I'd say use the cash wisely and get Photoshop. There are free image manipulation programs, such as The GIMP (http://www.gimp.org/) but in my experience, a Creative Suite (CS) including Image Ready is definitely worth it. It really depends on how serious you want to get with the visuals.

Dr. V

gregorywilliamd
Sep 16th, 2010, 04:44 PM
I started LEARNING on Dreamweaver. I don't really know if that was a good thing. I (an I know many professionals) use Coda (http://panic.com/coda) for Mac :)

KevinS
Sep 16th, 2010, 05:37 PM
No! Complete waste of money. A good code editor is all you need and there are many open source ones available.

Dreamweaver will get you started with very bad habits.

Dr. V

Thanks Dr. V. :thumbsup: I always thought open source was the best way I need a program that helps me organize the pages templates in the orders I need them to be without too much hassle. An example of this easy coding would be the weebly templates and layouts. Easy input. (SEO friendly) of course :D

KevinS
Sep 16th, 2010, 05:39 PM
Where do I get Notepad++ Online?

VIPStephan
Sep 16th, 2010, 05:48 PM
Let me Google it for you. (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=notepad%2B%2B)

SB65
Sep 16th, 2010, 05:48 PM
Or you may also use FrontPage.

Frontpage?????
Don't even think about it.

teedoff
Sep 16th, 2010, 05:58 PM
*sigh* lol yet another DW bashing....lol

Doctor_Varney
Sep 16th, 2010, 06:06 PM
Yes, and with good reason. Beginners need to be aware. Look at the amount of newbies who come running in here nearly all the time, saying "What's wrong with this, why don't it work in IE, etc..?".
When you look in their code, you see first a DW Javascript and next, a bank of tables or a pile of disorganised, absolute positioned DIVs. I can honestly say Dreamweaver held me back for years!

Among the best ways of learning CSS are to read books - or to plough through the wealth of online tutorials.... all of them hand-coded and many addressing cross-browser issues and discussing new innovations. Dreamweaver leaves many in their own little world, floundering with archaic methods and stagnating designs. For me, there was an immediate sense of creative freedom when I broke free of that prison.... but understanding the box model at first was the biggest challenge and many times I became discouraged. You have to work through it.

As for Frontpage... I second SB65's sentiment.

Dr. V

teedoff
Sep 16th, 2010, 06:36 PM
All that is very true. We've discussed this in another posting here. Again Ill say this for the readers of this forum. I dont think DW is garbage. It serves a purpose initially as a training tool, if used properly. Though as you have said, most ppl probably dont use it properly. For me, when learning CF or PHP, it was and still is a tremendous help.

Having said that, I think I like notepad ++ and, and alot of coders are using this, I like that jEdit as well.

jEdit has tremendous capabilities and a ton of addon extensions! And its free as well.


Oh and to what the initial poster asked..lol

If you are just learning html and will be coding in html and css only, then yes all you need is a text editor.
If you eventually want to start creating dynamic sites, you will need an application server and or a database server. As someone mentioned above, if you are going to write PHP code, WAMP or XAMP is awesome.
If you will be learning Coldfusion, then you would need to download and install the CF 9 developer edition which is free as well.

dirtychinchilla
Sep 16th, 2010, 06:39 PM
i'd recommend notepad++ again

funkymonk
Sep 16th, 2010, 08:32 PM
My suggestion is if you dont know anything about html to look at something like dreamweaver that you can construct everything on it without actually coding but essentially you dont want to use it as a crutch. you should really look at what the program is doing itself to understand how things work in the code so you can better understand what you are doing. Ultimately you will want to be able to write a code that displays a page with just the use of notepad and a browser to check it. I personally use something like Coffeecup html cuz it has all the codes on the side and a quick few.

_Aerospace_Eng_
Sep 17th, 2010, 12:22 AM
If you are going to be doing just html/css sure get something like notepad++. Its when you start doing server side stuff when Dreamweaver gets really handy. The new CS5 version has tooltips for php functions as well as linking to the documentation on php.net. It also has php syntax error checking which saves time so you don't upload something that is broken.

Doctor_Varney
Sep 17th, 2010, 02:10 AM
All that is very true. We've discussed this in another posting here. Again Ill say this for the readers of this forum. I dont think DW is garbage. It serves a purpose initially as a training tool, if used properly. Though as you have said, most ppl probably dont use it properly. For me, when learning CF or PHP, it was and still is a tremendous help.

I said "Dreamweaver held me back..." It's probably more true to say my own ignorance held me back - but there was no one around to tell me any different.

At the end of the day, the OP must make his own choice based on the evidence.

As with many things, there are always going to be contrary opinions and different experiences and each is as valid as another. I would think that you'll have to look around the wider field of the web, to see what others say. Weigh up your needs against what each software offers to see which ticks all the boxes for you. It might be DW or it might be a combination of things.

Dr. V

teedoff
Sep 17th, 2010, 05:01 AM
If you are going to be doing just html/css sure get something like notepad++. Its when you start doing server side stuff when Dreamweaver gets really handy. The new CS5 version has tooltips for php functions as well as linking to the documentation on php.net. It also has php syntax error checking which saves time so you don't upload something that is broken.

WOw! a DW endorsment from a Master Coder ! lol That should add a modicum of validity right?.:thumbsup:

oldcrazylegs
Sep 17th, 2010, 06:13 AM
Dreamweaver is the industry standard and because of that it is also very expensive. To save yourself from buying an expensive app that you may not like or may never use I suggest you look for a portable version. Some features might not work but it will give you a chance to see if you'll like it. Try it a few days and then if you like it you can delete it and then buy the full version from Adobe. I have saved myself from buying the wrong software several times this way. I learned back in the old days before HTML editors existed.

Doctor_Varney
Sep 17th, 2010, 07:14 AM
Dreamweaver is the industry standard

I am wary of this term and I think every newcomer should be, too. I think it can be misleading, at first blush, unless one is aware of what's really going on in the industry itself. Otherwise, I pretty much second what you're saying, with regards to 'trying before you buy'.

Dr. V

Major Payne
Sep 17th, 2010, 07:52 AM
FrontPage is the world's WORSE web editor. Word, WordPad, Publisher and even the infamous FrontPage should NEVER be used for web pages. They guarantee that your web pages will NOT be cross-browser compatible because of all the Microsoft Schema code it adds. Only IE and Maxthon understand this code. Additionally, FrontPage requires server extensions be installed to work correctly.

Dreamweaver is overpriced and NOT really needed when there are so many good and free web editors are available.

Web Editors (PC):

10 Fantastic Free Web Page Editors: http://www.elated.com/articles/10-fantastic-free-web-page-editors/
Free HTML Editors, Web Editors, and WYSIWYG Web Editors and Site Builders:
http://www.thefreecountry.com/webmaster/htmleditors.shtml#htmleditors
PageBreeze (Free visual (WYSIWYG) and HTML tag/source modes): http://www.pagebreeze.com/
Serif WebPlus SE: http://myrtc.blogspot.com/2009/08/review-serif-webplus-se.html
Notepad++ (Free source code editor and Notepad replacement that supports several languages): http://notepad-plus-plus.org/ or
http://notepad-plus.sourceforge.net/uk/site.htm
Download Trellian WebPage (Free): http://www.trellian.com/webpage/index.html

Komodo Edit: http://www.activestate.com/komodo-edit
Aptana Studio: http://www.aptana.org/products/studio2
PSPad: http://www.pspad.com/
jEdit: http://www.jedit.org/
TextWrangler: http://www.barebones.com/products/textwrangler/

Official text editor of the GNOME desktop environment: http://projects.gnome.org/gedit/

Online WebSketch: http://www.websketch.com/

Flash Editors:

Free Flash Website Builder (Online): http://www.wix.com/
Free Online Editor Tool: http://htmledit.squarefree.com/
SWF Quicker V4.0 - http://sproutbuilder.com/account/subscribe (Trial/Buy)

Online Flash Editor:

Sprout, The Online WYSIWYG Editor for Flash: http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/01/29/sprout-the-online-wysiwyg-editor-for-flash/

Flash Tip: Embedding Your SWF in a Web Page: http://animation.about.com/od/flashanimationtutorials/qt/embedswfwebpage.htm

teedoff
Sep 17th, 2010, 09:32 PM
One more thing I will say though. And I havent used very many text editors, just a few, but none I have seen so far would allow a new web designer to do what DW allows them to do. What I mean is, how many other text editors have the built in Coldfusion, php, and other wizards that allow a person who has never worked with any of these create very nice dynamic websites. Yes, again I know DW does often put quite a bit of junk code in using these wizards, but noone can deny that those are very powerful and useful tools for the newcomer.

Major Payne
Sep 18th, 2010, 12:46 AM
There are less expensive web editors that do everything DW does and more. HTML-Kit and a few others allow coding in any PHP, JavaScript, Markup language you want. These have so many nifty tools (wizards) and plug-ins that they are more of a pleasure to use than DW will ever be.

A new coder does not and should not waste the money when the less expensive editor do just as well. If you learn to hand code your pages, you can do everything with just about any free web editor.

I have DW and quit using it years ago. Just got tired of correcting the code. I now have an editor that is up to date with CSS 3 and HTML 5. They will continue to update the version as changes are made to these latest recommended standards.

Doctor_Varney
Sep 18th, 2010, 08:08 AM
WOw! a DW endorsment from a Master Coder ! lol That should add a modicum of validity right?.:thumbsup:

It makes me wonder... Are you hoping for some kind of validation, for having invested money in it? I've seen this rather a lot with people who have bought certain music software on the strength that it was sold to them as 'industry standard'. I've seen many an argument erupt when these people realise there are much cheaper options which they missed by chasing a notion born out of advertising but don't want to admit it to themselves.

Don't worry about it. What's done is done. What's important is that you've become good at it, no matter how you learned. I learned a few things from using Dreamweaver also.

Dr. V

teedoff
Sep 18th, 2010, 02:48 PM
It makes me wonder... Are you hoping for some kind of validation, for having invested money in it? I've seen this rather a lot with people who have bought certain music software on the strength that it was sold to them as 'industry standard'. I've seen many an argument erupt when these people realise there are much cheaper options which they missed by chasing a notion born out of advertising but don't want to admit it to themselves.

Don't worry about it. What's done is done. What's important is that you've become good at it, no matter how you learned. I learned a few things from using Dreamweaver also.

Dr. V

No I could care less if someone validates my purchases or choices. Im not one who makes decisions based on what others tell me or what marketing campaigns suggest I buy or use.

I'm merely trying to point out that no matter how much some "pros" in this industry hate DW or any product, doesnt mean it doesn't have a place and useful purpose for others who may be just starting out. Sure, the cost alone is a good argument for someone to look into another product, but it bugs me when someone is so anti this or anti that based on the argument that its "junk".

Now, I'm really done talking about this...lol this is a forum for learning and helping others. The original poster has many options to choose from, and he seems intelligent enough to make his own, right decision as to which editor/software to use.

Please dont think I'm mad..lol I'm not, I just thinks its pointless to debate this further. Have a great day!

Doctor_Varney
Sep 18th, 2010, 03:55 PM
I don't view debate as pointless. Sometimes it can stagnate, yes, but for the most part, I view it as healthy.

You wouldn't base an argument on something being 'junk' because 'junk' is someone's subjective conclusion. The argument for, is likely to be based on industry standards and the one against, based on the immediacy of web-standards in it's workflow. 'Junk' is merely a pejorative term and seems to imply that the product doesn't work properly and not something I'd seriously suggest, either.

It's important to draw the distinction between 'bashing' a product and the people who use a product. As long as no one is trying to belittle anyone and the debate remains civil and friendly, I see no problem. Quite the contrary; based on your intelligent posts and ability to debate calmly, I have the greatest of respect for you, personally.

Though I agree, we've answered the OP's question as fully as we can and there is little else to say, other than to respect each other's choice of tools.

I think we should be pleased that we can come to such a conclusion, after a debate and not see the topic locked down. It's always a shame when that happens. Back to business, eh! :)

Kind regards

Dr. V

abduraooft
Sep 18th, 2010, 04:28 PM
@KevinS : Don't invest on any WYSIWYG editors in the assumption that you might be able to make good websites(having a clean/semantic (http://boagworld.com/technology/semantic-code-what-why-how) markup) with the help of their "DESIGN view".

Major Payne
Sep 19th, 2010, 12:05 AM
@KevinS : Don't invest on any WYSIWYG editors in the assumption that you might be able to make good websites(having a clean/semantic (http://boagworld.com/technology/semantic-code-what-why-how) markup) with the help of their "DESIGN view".Couldn't have said it any better. A WYSIWYG (Visual) Editor or coding in Code Source View mode you are still using a TOOL. YOU are the designer so you can't expect the tool to magically make what you want and have it function as you have visioned it.

slappyjaw
Sep 20th, 2010, 02:00 AM
bleh i would use dreamweaver. not sure if its worth the investment, i mean i didnt buy it my dad had it from his company and let me use it. i like it but i also dont use the visual editor, lol.