View Full Version : Help with Frame (padding/spacing)

08-27-2010, 12:44 AM
Hello! I hope someone'll be able to help me out:

I've been struggling with the central vertical frame (not the small dotted one) on http://seka.mangacandy.com for a long time now; There should NOT be any white border/space around the frame, and as far as I'm aware I've tried every combination of 'framespacing="0" border="0" frameborder="0"' I can think of, yet there it still is...

The problem is even worse in IE (I use Firefox), where the white space is so large on the right hand side that it interferes with the overflow :(

Does anyone have any ideas? The border should ideally only be a solid 1px.

Thanks in advance!

08-27-2010, 06:18 PM
Read this and decide if you still really want to use frames.


(Also decide if you really want to interfere with your user's digestive system. That background pattern is making me feel sick. You'll give someone a migraine.)

Dr. V

08-31-2010, 01:19 PM
Thanks for the advice, I knew frames were frowned upon but aside from a few aesthetic nuances I'd never known anyone suffering accessibility issues with them. I did try to rewrite the site in PHP a few weeks back, but to be honest I didn't try very hard!

At the risk of asking too much... would you possibly have a suggestion of a better way to set up this same layout *without* using frame? i.e. the unchanging navigation bar on the left, the changing menu strip in the center, and the changing "viewing" frame on the right.

Given a few weeks and HUNDREDS of mistakes I might be able to get it straight myself, but if you could give me any advice that would be hugely appreciated.

Thanks again!

PS: I'll tone down the BG ;)

08-31-2010, 03:11 PM
Hehe cool. Glad I didn't offend you with that. None meant. :)

Frames are frowned upon, yes - but I'd say they're alright in certain applications, such as in a closed intranet, off the main highway. I suppose that's why the W3C have included support for frames - but as a means of getting yourself 'out there', they can cause hideous problems with navigation, bookmarking, linking-out and of course, search engines. Personally, I had so many sizing and layout issues across browsers and screens, I gave up using them altogether!

If you do a quick search for CSS layouts and examine some of the most popular models out there, you will come across exactly the sort of layout you've been attempting there.

For a start, you'll need a simple columns layout with divs (to replace the frames). This dude (http://bonrouge.com/2c-hf-fluid.php) has some great advice and tutorials to get you started.

For that lovely menu thing you got going on in your left column, you'll need to get into making lists. Go here (http://css.maxdesign.com.au/listutorial/index.htm) and learn how to make list menus. You can add backgrounds to list items, to make buttons - or style them up to look like the ones you have created.

As you'll know, frames seem good because once the navigation frame is loaded, it doesn't need to load again, each time you jump to a new page. Because CSS is so powerful when it comes to styling, often you don't need images to make navigation and headers look cool and it uses much leaner code. This means the site loads faster and so jumping from page to page can feel as seamless as moving through frames.

But at the end of the day, I'm saying weigh it up and decide for yourself. I'm not going to tell you what to do with your site, because that's your business.

Hope this helps.

PS. It's not so much the colour that bothered me, but the spots themselves.

Dr. V

08-31-2010, 04:03 PM
I think you can use div layouts and set specific heights to certain divs then you will get the scroll bar effect. The you can set the left or right div, whichever you like to fixed position so that as you scroll, the menus, as you have it now, will appear to stay fixed. Endless possibilities only limited by knowledge and imagination. Wish I had some of each! lol

08-31-2010, 05:39 PM
Thanks for all the great advice, both of you.

I THINK I'm going to go with a php + div layers approach :) To save the hassle of loading a completely new (with only small differences) .html document each time, I'm going with a fixed nav bar and an include within the rest of the page. The include will involve 2 div layers, changing on the use of the nav bar.

This is how far I've gotten with the conversion:


I don't know if either of you have a comfort-zone in php, but I'm having a issue with the include; No matter what nav bar button is clicked, only the automatic


page is shown :(

It's a little difficult to describe the issue, but if you have any idea that'd be awesome...

08-31-2010, 11:02 PM

Make that http://seka.mangacandy.com

08-31-2010, 11:46 PM
Sorry, can't help you with PHP questions. I don't do PHP.

Dr. V

09-01-2010, 12:45 AM
No problem, I'll start a new thread!

Thanks for your help :)

09-01-2010, 02:43 AM
im just starting to learn PHP...give me a month or so...lol Good luck