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oldcrazylegs
Mar 11th, 2008, 07:02 PM
Has anyone been experimenting with X/HTML 5 yet? Do any browsers support it yet? How do you know what definition (Frameset, Transitional, Strict) with a DTD like below? Is there just one definition now? It sure would make things easier if there were?


<!Doctype HTML>

Any help you could give me on this would be greatly appreciated.

Looks like it will be fun learning it. Lots of new stuff in there. I don't think WYSIWYG editors should be allowed to use the font tag if the rest of us aren't.

I sure hope I'm not dead before they finish CSS3. :(

rafiki
Mar 11th, 2008, 07:05 PM
guess you change the 4.0 to 5.0? from the html 4 doctype?
I just tried validating it and

# Line 2, Column 42: could not get "/TR/html5/strict.dtd" from "www.w3.org" (reason given was "Not Found").

"http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/strict.dtd">


# Error Line 2, Column 42: DTD did not contain element declaration for document type name.

"http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/strict.dtd">


# Error Line 2, Column 43: no document element.

"http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/strict.dtd">

_Aerospace_Eng_
Mar 11th, 2008, 07:07 PM
Guessing you haven't been to w3.org meaning you probably haven't done any searching on your own.

http://www.w3.org/TR/html5-diff/

rafiki
Mar 11th, 2008, 07:13 PM
i did google search for html 5 doctype

_Aerospace_Eng_
Mar 11th, 2008, 07:16 PM
Not you. Usually posts in a thread are aimed at the OP and not the posters.

rafiki
Mar 11th, 2008, 07:17 PM
Sorry, could of been both..

oldcrazylegs
Mar 11th, 2008, 07:27 PM
Actually I did do a search and I have looked at some stuff at W3. But not being a developer I wasn't sure what I was seeing. I doubt if the Validator would validate it yet.

liorean
Mar 11th, 2008, 08:59 PM
Has anyone been experimenting with X/HTML 5 yet?Not much, but I've done a little playing around with canvas. Drawing basic shapes and all, nothing deeper than that.
Do any browsers support it yet?It's impossible for a browser to support it because the spec is far from finished yet. There are some parts that are quite near finished while other issues have yet to be addressed at all. Opera supports WebForms2. Apple, Opera and Mozilla support Canvas. Apple, Microsoft betas support native Selectors API. Opera, Mozilla and Microsoft betas support ARIA. Opera, Mozilla and Safari betas or feature builds support video and audio elements. Etc.
How do you know what definition (Frameset, Transitional, Strict) with a DTD like below?There is no DTD for HTML5 at the moment, and will not be an official one at all. There is a DOCTYPE though. This DOCTYPE exists there for a single reason: to put the user agent into standards mode.
Is there just one definition now?Yes.
It sure would make things easier if there were?Not necessarily, except for the fact you'll no longer have to remember a darn large boilerplate that nobody of the big four actually cared about.


<!Doctype HTML><!DOCTYPE html> is the preferable way of capitalising it.
Looks like it will be fun learning it. Lots of new stuff in there. I don't think WYSIWYG editors should be allowed to use the font tag if the rest of us aren't.I agree with you, but people such as Daniel Glazman who's spent years as main developer building the Netscape Composer/Mozilla Editor/Mozilla Composer/NVU/SeaMonkey Composer has attested, among with other WYSIWYG tool providers, that it's simply impossible to generate semantic markup without subverting that markup for the wrong uses if the language didn't support some mostly-presentational features such as the font element and style attributes. WYSIWYG users don't typically care what the semantics of their markup is, as long as the display convey the right graphical presentation for their intentional meaning.
I sure hope I'm not dead before they finish CSS3. :(CSS3 is modular - one CSS3 spec can be a recommendation while another is a first public working draft. Don't expect all parts of CSS3 to even be finished at all. Quite a few parts are moving forward at a steady pace, though, and some parts like Selectors have been to Candidate Recommendation stage but are now back at Working Draft stage.


Oh, and as for validation of HTML5: <uri:http://validator.nu/> is the validator you should use.

VIPStephan
Mar 11th, 2008, 09:57 PM
WYSIWYG users don't typically care what the semantics of their markup is, as long as the display convey the right graphical presentation for their intentional meaning.

After all, it's called what you see is what you get… unfortunately… <rant>because that’s the actual evil that created all that tag soup we have nowadays. Average users (and many so called “web designers”) approach things from a purely visual point of view which leads to all that crap we see: websites whose only sense is to display some fancy graphic without bringing any useful message across.</rant>

maxvee8
Mar 11th, 2008, 11:51 PM
I sure hope I'm not dead before they finish CSS3. :(

made my day haha. good thread any way dint even know about version 5

Ultragames
Mar 12th, 2008, 12:11 AM
WYSIWYGISB's, or WhatYouSeeIsWhatYouGetInSomeBrowsers, are really meant for getting a site to look how you want, but they are not, and I doubt ever will be, good for writing standard, clean, efficient, code.

A lot of clients ask me why I hand code EVERY page of EVERY website I make, when "FrontPage and Dreamweaver do it all for you." I tell them that I could go on for hours about all of the fantastic things that you cannot do with a WYSIWYG. That usually gets the point through to them. WYSIWYG is not for serious developers.

Skyzyx
Mar 13th, 2008, 02:56 AM
The HTML5 Working Group (of which I recently joined) posted the first working draft of the spec at http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/. CSS3 is made up of a series of modules that are expected to be implemented in chunks and not as the spec-as-a-whole.

Also, with the way that web specs are managed, a spec is not "finished" (i.e. a W3C Recommendation) until at least 2 major vendors have implemented substantial (or complete, I don't recall) support for it. Vendors are SUPPOSED to implement support for it and then give feedback on the implementation so that the spec can be fine-tuned. Browser makers are essentially beta testers in the process.

The HTML5 spec isn't scheduled to become a Recommendation for 15 years, BUT I know that Internet Explorer 8.0 Beta 1 has preliminary support for *some* of the HTML5 spec. I know that Firefox and Safari are also beginning down this path. Firefox, Safari, and Opera have supported parts of CSS3 for years already, and IE is attempting to catch up at this point. IE8 definitely looks promising in terms of standards support though.

oldcrazylegs
Mar 14th, 2008, 09:35 PM
Thanks everyone for your helpful comments. Sounds like I should forget about HTML 5 and CSS 3 for now. I was just looking for a new toy/challenge to play with. The current specification is getting boring. :D