View Full Version : Mozilla code bloated? Apple snubs the browser.

01-14-2003, 03:09 PM
There's an article on News.com today on Apple's decision to release a browser based on Konqueror rather than Mozilla citing bloated code on Mozilla's part: http://news.com.com/2100-1023-980492.html?tag=fd_lede1_hed

For people who have used both Konqueror and Mozilla, or are simply knowledgeable on the two, what are your thoughts?

01-14-2003, 03:59 PM
I've not tested it personally, but a couple of people have emailed me about it and the consenus seems to be it's very fast, but a little buggy; it is a beta after all.

My experience of Konqueror is little different from Mozilla - adequately specced for the kind of stuff I do, fast enough but not exactly greased lightning; I've not noticed any appreciable difference in rendering and processing speed between moz and konqueoror on Linux; Konqueror (in KDE) starts up faster, but then it would if its the window manager. Konqueror in Gnome is appallingly slow to start up - much slower than mozilla.

This is all subjective I know. I don't know enough about it to comment on the size of Mozilla's codebase, but my own experience is that all versions of mozilla are slow to start-up. But other gecko browsers - like k-meleon and Pheonix - don't have this problem; I sincerely hope that that report is not confusing gecko (very good rendering engine) with chrome (appalingly bad, slow and buggy interface)

I'll comment more when my new iMac arrives ;) imo "Safari" is a really cool name :)

01-14-2003, 10:45 PM
As far as I know they picked KHTML because it was easier to embed.

Gecko is still a far better rendering engine in terms of what it supports, not to say that KHTML isn't bad....

01-15-2003, 08:53 AM
There's a nice review of apple's new browser on Webmonkey (http://hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey/03/02/index3a.html). Although they hold it for a great promise, they still prefer Mozilla's Chimera.

01-15-2003, 02:12 PM
I use both Konqueror (KHTML) and Mozilla (Gecko) and GNOME 2 as my Desktop Enviroment.Mozilla starts much faster than Konqueror (eventhough Konqueror's chrome is bloated too,since it's also a file manager).The rendering seems to be the same speed (eventhough Gecko supports more of JavaScript,CSS and the DOM).Valid pages render the same in Gecko and KHTML.

Btw,it has nothing to do with the Window Manager.I use Kwin under GNOME 2 and it's the same ;)

01-25-2003, 01:52 AM
I've got a new mac now :) And having tried Safari I'll say this much .. their hype is basically true; it is *very* fast. I'm seeing a few CSS bugs, but nothing serious. Scripting wise, I ran some code through it which was designed for Konqueror - basically a script that was designed for mozilla but with a couple of browser hacks - and Safari responded exactly like Konqueor.

But I've heard it mentioned that Safari has user-agent spoofing ... does anyone know about this? I can't find it in the preferences.

01-26-2003, 05:57 PM
Ah .. it seems you need an add-on http://gordon.sourcecod.com/sites/safari_enhancer.php

Also has a DOM viewer and Render Tree viewer - but no javascript console.

And I've noticed another weird thing ... document mouse events don't fire unless the document has the focus; but when you click a link that opens a new window, the new document doesn't automatically take the focus ...

The end result I noticed is that if the new window contains something like a DHTML menu, or other mouseover driven effect, it doesn't work until you click on the document to give it the focus!

01-26-2003, 06:57 PM
I've used Mozilla, Konqueror and Netscape in Linux . I find Mozilla and Konqueror to take about the same time to load, (Konqueror may be a little slower).

I tend to use minimalist window managers like fluxbox or occasionally windowmaker, which does speed things up somewhat.

I'm not completely happy with most browsers as they have more than I need (I use other email clients etc.) and the lightweights have enough inocompatabilities with newer web standards that I don't use them.

I use Mozilla in both windows and linux, mostly because of its ability to refuse pop-ups and the tab system, which I like.

For those who may be interested, here's an article on lightweight web browsers in Linux (2003)