View Full Version : Resolution check.

12-05-2002, 04:47 PM
Can you please check my site with your resolutions, and let me know if you can see it properly, and correctly. This is what it should look like:

Mind you I will take it down after three days. Todays date is December 5 2003, the image will be removed on the 8th.

(I would have attached it but the file is slightly too big... so sorry 56k users. :)



12-05-2002, 04:57 PM
Looks good on 1024*768 - Screengrab is here (http://www.cowandchicken.plus.com/ionsurge.jpg)


12-05-2002, 05:50 PM
fluidity is ok, starts clipping content area at widths <~750px.
Contrast sucks though. Suggestion: make text black.

12-05-2002, 07:37 PM
Will look into that ... but I cant make the change right away, it will take a while, seeing as I have to change a few things in both the html file and the .css.


12-05-2002, 08:09 PM
It is black now.


12-05-2002, 08:47 PM
Now when I have it on fullscreen I can't see the right hand margin.


12-05-2002, 08:48 PM
Now if you would spec the font size relatively so even IE users can change it, it will make alot of eyes happier.

12-06-2002, 01:45 AM
Hey Ionsurge, I sent you a very important PM, you should check it out when you get a chance.

12-06-2002, 05:23 AM
looks fine to me in 800x600

12-06-2002, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by pardicity3
Hey Ionsurge, I sent you a very important PM, you should check it out when you get a chance.

Cheers mate about that. I have sorted it out now.

@murphyz, do you have a screenshot of that error, I cant seem to figure out what is going on. - which margin do you talk of? The one on the right of the menu, or the one right of the content?

Thanx again Pardicity3.


12-06-2002, 12:57 PM
t's working now I'm at work so will check next time I'm at home and let you know. It was the thin grey vertical line at the right of the textbox and to the left of the scrollbar.


12-06-2002, 01:00 PM
Okay, that is a pretty big error - I thought you may have meant the right of the menu, which hasn't shown up in my screenshot from Opera, but it does show on IE. I know about it - and it is not a big error.

So I need to fix that one up. What browser are you using and for what OS?

Thanx for your help mate.


12-06-2002, 01:08 PM
I am using IE 5.5 and at work I'm on Windows 2000, at home Windows 98.

The problem occurs at home.

If I press F11 to get full screen the line shows, perhaps because the text moves around a bit. But in normal browser with menus it doesn't show - perhaps because of the extra pixel or two of the browser border.


12-06-2002, 01:12 PM
In moz 1.1 @ upto 1600x1200 I always get an inch and a half of horizontal scrolling and the line above the tos and copyright passes through the [help] cell rather than sitting at the base.

12-06-2002, 01:13 PM
- hrmm... I don't have Win98... I ditched it when it kept crashing on me every 6 weeks or so.

I think I will be stumped with this... I need to think.

Cheers murphyz.


12-06-2002, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by Íkii
In moz 1.1 @ upto 1600x1200 I always get an inch and a half of horizontal scrolling and the line above the tos and copyright passes through the [help] cell rather than sitting at the base.

I know how to fix that one.

Will try to sort that out now.


12-06-2002, 01:20 PM
@Okii - I think that should have fixed it.


12-06-2002, 01:54 PM
I just thought of something that may just fix all the errors.

Bear with me while I try to sort it out. I will be back with you all in about 2/3 hours. (Yeah I know, but I need to go out for a while in a bit, that is why it will be a while before I get back to you).


12-06-2002, 02:05 PM
Okay, I have done it, let me know if it works now.

Go to www.ionsurge.com/index.php to check it.

Cheers all.


12-06-2002, 06:48 PM
looks fine to me in IE5 800x600 at work :)
although it never looked screwy to me anyway

12-07-2002, 01:19 AM
Hey ionsurge,

yesterday I saw your post and checked out your page, I was using a nightly build of Moz 1.3a on Linux, and the entire content section of the page (i.e. the ": : : Update Construction News : : : " box was at the bottom of the page, under the left hand menu. I thought it might have been a problem with that specific build so I started to install the absolute newest nightly build and umm... accidentally overwrote my /usr/bin folder in the process HAHA... oopsie. :o

Back in windows now for the first time in about a month ;), I am running last night's Moz. build and your page looks fine. It's going to be a while before I can sort out that problem and get back into linux but you might want to have someone else running linux/mozilla to check that out.

You might have already fixed the problem or maybe I caught you when you were updating it? Better safe than sorry though...


12-07-2002, 01:44 PM
You are probably right, you may have got it when I was updating it.

What I did was to group the menu and header, and the main information together into one table, with each in their own tables.

The footer is in its own seperate table, which seems to have fixed almost all the problems now (well all the ones that have been mentioned - hopefully.

Cheers Dauvm for your response.


12-07-2002, 04:01 PM
Yup, looks great in moz1.1 now :)

12-07-2002, 04:48 PM

And the crowds go wild! That makes me so relieved it is indescribable... <sigh>


12-07-2002, 10:12 PM
Glad I caught you updating!

Btw, it looks REALLY sharp, I like it.

Only one thing I might possibly change is add just a pixel or two more of padding on the left menu text... it seems pretty close to the side. But i'm just being picky because it looks great :)

Another thing I just noticed... if you follow the thin grey outline of you menu it goes up to the corner, then stops, did you do that on purpose?


12-08-2002, 12:00 PM
Yeah I did do that on purpose, but I may alter it if it needs altering.

Thank you for helping me, and I will sort out the padding on the menu in a bit - but I have another problem that murphyz is having with is browser, so I will sort that out once I think I have finished that.

Also, thank you for your comments.


12-08-2002, 01:20 PM
nice site ion, looks good on my p.o.s laptop. although i think it needs one more colour added to the design - a nice blue maybe, also the left side sub nav would look good as a css roll over menu - i've just made a simple one which you are welcome to use -

.menu {
font : normal 9px Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
line-height : 16px;

.menu a,.menu a:link,.menu a:active,.menu a:visited {
display : block;
background : #990000;
color : #FFFFFF;
text-decoration : none;
line-height : 16px;

.menu a:hover {
background : #000000;
color : #FFFFFF;
cursor : pointer;
text-decoration : none;
}.whitetext { font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 7.5pt; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; color: #FFFFFF; text-decoration: none}

you can see it on the left here - http://www.designermortgages.com/news.htm

12-08-2002, 01:45 PM
Yeah that is great, I may give it a whirl, and use it, but mind you the colours are not getting changed at the mo, seeing as you guys will be able to customize the site to look how you want it too, and that should be done near the completion of the site - but not at the mo.

I guess I may add more colour to it before, we will just have to see what will happen.

Cheers KevinG,


12-08-2002, 01:47 PM
But does it validate?
141 Errors..

12-08-2002, 01:59 PM
Sorting them out now.

The strange thing is that most of these errors were made by Dreamweaver/Homesite, and not me... heh.


12-08-2002, 02:10 PM
The explanations for these seem really confusing to understand...

What is even worse is that this:

1: <?xml version="1.0" encoding="iso-8859-1"?><!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
2: <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
3: <head>
4: <title>Welcome to Ionsurge ™ - Currently Under Construction</title>
5: <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" />
6: <META content=true name=MSSmartTagsPreventParsing>
7: <META content="Copyright 2002 Ionsurge Inc. All rights reserved." name=copyright>
8: <META description="Web Directory, completely advert and popup free, and customizable.">
9: <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2716.2200" name=GENERATOR>

The bold stuff that is just bold is generated as being exactly the same in both dreamweaver/homesite/and crimson editor.

The stuff that is in Italics, that was taken from:


<meta description="Family-run bed and breakfast situated on the cliffs above Torrey Pines State Park.">

Just edited.

The attribute bgcolor was assigned by Dreamweaver, and it seems to work across all browsers, so what is wrong with it, and how can it not exist - if the browsers detect it and read it? If it is wrong, then what is right? The explanation seems to be vague...

I am looking through and fixing what I can... but these are confusing me.



12-09-2002, 12:36 AM
Coding standards can be really tough. I see that you care enough now to check your pages in all major browsers, but coding to standards just helps to make sure that your code is very clean and that you're not using propriety tags.
The attribute bgcolor was assigned by Dreamweaver, and it seems to work across all browsers, so what is wrong with it, and how can it not exist - if the browsers detect it and read it? If it is wrong, then what is right? The explanation seems to be vague...
I've seen a lot of people call IE a better browser than mozilla because it displayed more crappy code correctly... mozilla and even opera still support small bits of non-standardized code because even people that take the time to check their pages in multiple browsers usually don't care enough to make sure it validates.
Dreamweaver doesn't come preconfigured to code to standards, and from what little I've played with it, it can put some pretty funky stuff in your code... but I guess that's WYSIWYG editors for ya. Check out Dreamweaver Task Force (http://www.webstandards.org/act/campaign/dwtf/) to see what people are doing to get dreamweaver to create better code.

The way that i learned standards was to start coding xhtml strict. If you can make a page with xhtml strict that validates, then writing a page in valid html 4 is a joke ;)

Did anybody notice the w3c site is finally using a table-less layout now? hmm... :)

Good luck!


12-09-2002, 07:24 AM
I have managed to get down the number of errors down from 14x to around 90 something. So I think this is going fine.

Question - this may sound stupid, but I got this code from the WaSP site:

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"

<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">

Would this work on a php document, and if not how would I get to validate a .php document?

I will be working on it, seeing as I like to learn as I go a long, well in more depth as I go along. I thought that I was comfortably in the deep end, but now it seems that I have been shoved back into the shallow end of the pool. But I guess that is life, and I will get back into the deep end at the end of this.

If I can fix it or use it, I will let you know.

Meanwhile, I appreciate all responses as always.

Thank you.


12-09-2002, 07:26 AM
btw, a lot of people did say that Opera was the best browser to test by, as was Mozilla. To make sure I have IE6, Opera 7, Mozilla (latest build) and Avante Browser, which is a bit like IE in itself.


12-09-2002, 08:59 AM
Don't you hate feeling on top and then *poof*... back down ya go. Yea... it happens to me too, a lot.

So to answer you php question: as you know php is a server-side language, so although you may have lines of php in your origional document which are not valid XHTML, the browser only sees it after it is parsed. As long as what you are showing the browser starts with your DTD (document type declaration) then it can validate as XHTML.

Just a few things that are essential to creating a XHTML document that might help you along:
1) Your 1st line has to be a DTD and you must have a title in your document.
2) all tag names in lowercase
3) everthing must be well-formed and properly nested, all tags must have an ending tag. "Empty" tags close themselves. e.g.
<p>text text </p>
<img src="here" />
4) Possibly the hardest thing to get used to, in XHTML you CAN NOT nest tables! Only one layer of tables deep.
5) All attributes must be quoted, and no shortcut attributes, so:

<INPUT TYPE=radio NAME="Radio Button" VALUE=yes CHECKED> ..would be...
<input type="radio" name="Radio Button" value="yes" checked="checked" />
6) Watch out for commonly used tags that have been ommitted or deprecated in XHTML like <b>,<i>,<font>... all are replaced with style sheets, but <strong> and <em> are good for the first two, respectively.

well i'm sure there are more i'm forgetting, but that will get you going. Other people can add on to that, but it's 2:45am here and i've got a final tomorrow... i should get studying ;) ... nothing motivates like procrastination.


P.S. In my opinion, Opera is the best browser for testing because it was designed with webdesigners (somewhat) in mind, and supports the least amount of propriety code. A few tricks for it you may not know, right click on the page, go to "frame" and then "validate"... instantly validates the page with the w3c.... very cool. Another one, the user buttons at the top allow you to specify your own CSS. If you leave it blank, you can turn off all styles, images, and tables, to see what your page might look like with older browsers.
Mozilla is my browser of choice and has the BEST support for standards and for the deeper XML stuff like DOM... but most people don't even use that now (yet)... and IE, although a joke compared to the others, is very important to test for, for obvious reasons. All IMHO of course :)

12-09-2002, 03:04 PM
Thanks for that insightful reply, I will get right on it, and try to fix as much as I can.


12-11-2002, 04:08 PM
I have the errors down to exactly 90... from 141, I think that is pretty good.

I have updated some of the content too.

Still working on it tho.. :)


12-11-2002, 04:20 PM
Whoops, it is not 90 now, it is just 64. :D


12-11-2002, 09:43 PM
keep it up :)

A LOT of the errors appear to be duplicates like
1) end tag ommitted
2) start tag was here

and a lot of them are because you have changed the tags at the top to lowercase and the close tags are still uppercase (so they're not the same tag anymore). You can use this utility which is very usefull in quickly helping you get your page to validate: HTML Tidy


12-12-2002, 01:48 PM
Heya, I'm know you probably aren't interested in little design aspects right now but I was just thinking that it would help if you adjusted (put some even) padding on the left hand side menu. It's to close to the left of the monitor.

Just thought that if you didn't catch it before you made a whole bunch of pages or it didn't have a class you could be re-formatting a heap of cells/links.

Otherwise fine on 800x600 IE 6.0.2600.0000 (lol lots a 0s)

12-12-2002, 05:31 PM
@MHTML, okelly dokelly, I think someone mentioned that before, I do not know if it was you. I guess it must have shot out of my mind by this validating.

Will do that, and thank you MHtml, and Doug for your help.

I will let you know how I get on.



12-12-2002, 07:00 PM
Line 8, column 35: there is no attribute "leftmargin" (explain...).
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" leftmargin="0" topmargin="0" marginwidth="0" marginheigh

Line 8, column 49: there is no attribute "topmargin" (explain...).
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" leftmargin="0" topmargin="0" marginwidth="0" marginheight="0">

Line 8, column 65: there is no attribute "marginwidth" (explain...).
...="#FFFFFF" leftmargin="0" topmargin="0" marginwidth="0" marginheight="0">

Line 8, column 82: there is no attribute "marginheight" (explain...).
...gin="0" marginwidth="0" marginheight="0">

Line 17, column 83: there is no attribute "background" (explain...).
...="middle" nowrap="nowrap" background="images/ndsuba3bartopg.jpg" class="foote

Line 133, column 65: there is no attribute "align" (explain...).
...div align="justify"><font color="#000000"><br align="justify" />

I have now thankfully whittled down the errors to these 6. The reasons why they remain untouched is because I have no idea as to how I can change them to make them right so they do not alter the appearance of the page.

I need help with these, and I appreciate all replies.

btw @MHtml, I do not think that it is possible to add some padding to the menus... I will give it one last go, and I will let you know how I get on.

Thank you.


12-12-2002, 10:52 PM
CSS isn't hard, but it's an awesome awesome tool that makes making a webpage 100 times easier. I learned it hear: http://www.w3schools.com/css

to take care of the first four errors put this in your CSS:

body {
margin: 0
padding: 0

to add a background to an element, add this attribute (an inline style)


to add padding to your menu go to this line

<td bgcolor="#f2f2f2" class="r_menu"> <div align="left">

and in your div (you should try and stay away from styling table elements) add

style="padding-left: 10px"

or whatever suites you :)

Hope that helps,


12-13-2002, 07:10 AM
Thanks Doug, I will sort that out asap... :)

Cheers for the help so far.


12-13-2002, 04:17 PM
To show your readers that you have taken the care to create an interoperable Web page, you may display this icon on any page that validates. Here is the HTML you could use to add this icon to your Web page:

<a href="http://validator.w3.org/check/referer"><img
alt="Valid XHTML 1.0!" height="31" width="88" /></a>

I have eliminated all 141 errors... but my page looks identical, well almost when compared to how it did before. Who cares, it is valid!

<goes out to celebrate>



12-13-2002, 04:36 PM
Congratulations. A week well spent :)

And it means you get to use the valuable experience you learnt this week to take a look over my site. yay.


12-13-2002, 06:45 PM
thats looking great. there is one small thing that might not be worth fixing but there is the diagonal corner images around the main content dont quite line up with the border down the side - its only a couple of pixels out... take a look at the pic:


good work :thumbsup:

edit: i spotted this in IE6 / 800*600

12-14-2002, 05:22 AM
Beautiful site and now beautiful code to match.... nice job ionsurge.


12-14-2002, 09:47 AM
Okay, I will sort that out redhead... but bear with me - it is just past 8 am, so I will work at it when I return from the office.


Cheers all. You would not believe how satisfied that I am right now... :D

I am so happy! And this is nothing like me.

Thanks to Murphyz and Doug aka Dauvm, and MHtml for spotting the padding! - also to anyone else that I may have forgotten! :)