Go Back   CodingForums.com > :: Computing & Sciences > Geek News and Humour

Before you post, read our: Rules & Posting Guidelines

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Enjoy an ad free experience by logging in. Not a member yet? Register.
Old 02-19-2005, 07:02 PM   PM User | #1
liorean
The thread killer


 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Umeå, Sweden
Posts: 5,575
Thanks: 0
Thanked 84 Times in 75 Posts
liorean will become famous soon enoughliorean will become famous soon enough
The free lunch is over

An interesting article about the future of computing, The Free Lunch Is Over: A Fundamental Turn Toward Concurrency in Software by Herb Sutter is a good read that points out something that I've talked about here before. Concurrency is the future, non-concurrent programs will not benefit from future hardware improvements, and this requires a change in programming paradigm similar to the object orientation paradigm shift.
__________________
liorean <[lio@wg]>
Articles: RegEx evolt wsabstract , Named Arguments
Useful Threads: JavaScript Docs & Refs, FAQ - HTML & CSS Docs, FAQ - XML Doc & Refs
Moz: JavaScript DOM Interfaces MSDN: JScript DHTML KDE: KJS KHTML Opera: Standards
liorean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2005, 07:27 PM   PM User | #2
Mhtml
Senior Coder

 
Mhtml's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 3,531
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Mhtml is an unknown quantity at this point
Well as interesting as it is, it's also something that was predicted many times. I for one can't wait. A change to the general programming paradigm will mean structural change, micro economic reform. Resources will have to be reallocated for retraining, losses in revenue will temporarily occur. Leaving the few who jumped on this in advance to move in and replace those with antiquidated skills, these people will be highly sought after.
__________________
Omnis mico antequam dominus Spookster!
Mhtml is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2005, 08:21 PM   PM User | #3
liorean
The thread killer


 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Umeå, Sweden
Posts: 5,575
Thanks: 0
Thanked 84 Times in 75 Posts
liorean will become famous soon enoughliorean will become famous soon enough
Hmm, I wonder how the gaming industry will change the next couple of years. Games are typical single-process single-thread types of applications, and they have traditionally always been using as much computing power as they could.

They'll certainly feel the pressure if 4GHz turns out to be the end point of the processor speed race.
__________________
liorean <[lio@wg]>
Articles: RegEx evolt wsabstract , Named Arguments
Useful Threads: JavaScript Docs & Refs, FAQ - HTML & CSS Docs, FAQ - XML Doc & Refs
Moz: JavaScript DOM Interfaces MSDN: JScript DHTML KDE: KJS KHTML Opera: Standards
liorean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2005, 10:48 AM   PM User | #4
shmoove
Regular Coder

 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 367
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
shmoove is an unknown quantity at this point
The gaming industry will amongst the first to embrace the change. It has no other choice if you look at the hardware for the next gen consoles.

And there is plenty of potential for parallelism in games. The graphics pipeline can (and has been seens the advent of GPUs) be performed in parallel, but there is also AI, physics, sound, streaming in data (no more loading times between levels), networking, etc. that can all be performed each in it's different thread.

shmoove
shmoove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2005, 11:49 AM   PM User | #5
liorean
The thread killer


 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Umeå, Sweden
Posts: 5,575
Thanks: 0
Thanked 84 Times in 75 Posts
liorean will become famous soon enoughliorean will become famous soon enough
Well, I was more thinking about current games. HL2, Doom3 and that pack of games. Aren't they single threaded? They're already toying around with speed requirements that means they have already reached the limit. The problem for the games industry is really that when the roof is hit, it's hit. A game released three years ago today has had sufficient of a speedup that it runs smooth on any non-ancient machine. A game released today will not have had especially much speedup at all in three years, unless it's already written for concurrency. And that's the problem. It won't stop the gains for those that adapt for concurrency today. It will affect those that have released games that have not been written for concurrency today and last year.
__________________
liorean <[lio@wg]>
Articles: RegEx evolt wsabstract , Named Arguments
Useful Threads: JavaScript Docs & Refs, FAQ - HTML & CSS Docs, FAQ - XML Doc & Refs
Moz: JavaScript DOM Interfaces MSDN: JScript DHTML KDE: KJS KHTML Opera: Standards
liorean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2005, 01:08 PM   PM User | #6
gsnedders
Senior Coder

 
gsnedders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,340
Thanks: 1
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
gsnedders will become famous soon enough
Are the current games like HL2 and Doom 3 using Dual Processors if they have them available?
__________________
Geoffrey Sneddon
gsnedders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2005, 05:27 AM   PM User | #7
codegoboom
Regular Coder

 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: codegoboom@yahoo.com
Posts: 999
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
codegoboom is an unknown quantity at this point
Trends, paradigm shifts, sea changes, and all else that buzzes overhead in the name of progress disturb my simple being.

Oops I forgot to read another article... no, actually, it's all terribly interesting (that's the problem)!
__________________
*this message will self destruct in n-seconds*

Last edited by codegoboom; 02-27-2005 at 06:19 AM.. Reason: tense
codegoboom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2005, 08:07 AM   PM User | #8
shmoove
Regular Coder

 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 367
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
shmoove is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by liorean
Well, I was more thinking about current games. HL2, Doom3 and that pack of games. Aren't they single threaded?
Oh, OK. I was thinking about new games that would be designed from the get-go with multithreading in mind.

shmoove
shmoove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2005, 02:07 AM   PM User | #9
Mhtml
Senior Coder

 
Mhtml's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 3,531
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Mhtml is an unknown quantity at this point
Well you'd expect them to work just as a single thread and not show much speed increase as say the same game that had been multi-threaded.

But I have no idea, something I'd like to read up on though.

But just imagine how great it would be to be making a multithreaded game (I know I need a life). The modularity of it. It'd take object oriented designs to another level entirely. Perhaps we could see room for an even more object oriented language to take center stage. Perhaps even D might see increased use. I plan to port my game engine to D once it reaches the first release version.
__________________
Omnis mico antequam dominus Spookster!

Last edited by Mhtml; 03-02-2005 at 02:13 AM..
Mhtml is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2005, 08:06 AM   PM User | #10
liorean
The thread killer


 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Umeå, Sweden
Posts: 5,575
Thanks: 0
Thanked 84 Times in 75 Posts
liorean will become famous soon enoughliorean will become famous soon enough
Well, the tendency we've seen for inherently concurrent languages so far is rather the opposite - APL, K, J, Linda are not object oriented at all. However, SmallTalk, C-Linda, Java, threaded C/C++ and other not inherently concurrent but strongly threaded languages have proven quite good at it lately. But then you must remember that threading has less to do with the language and more with the operative system.
__________________
liorean <[lio@wg]>
Articles: RegEx evolt wsabstract , Named Arguments
Useful Threads: JavaScript Docs & Refs, FAQ - HTML & CSS Docs, FAQ - XML Doc & Refs
Moz: JavaScript DOM Interfaces MSDN: JScript DHTML KDE: KJS KHTML Opera: Standards
liorean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2005, 01:06 AM   PM User | #11
Mhtml
Senior Coder

 
Mhtml's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 3,531
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Mhtml is an unknown quantity at this point
True, but I'm talking more of the actual design to the program. When it is multithreaded it creates a more modular view of the program, well at least to me it does. You may not have much control over the actual threading (although you could if you wanted I'm sure) but you will have to create the processes at some stage at the very least.
__________________
Omnis mico antequam dominus Spookster!
Mhtml is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Jump To Top of Thread


Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:38 AM.


Advertisement
Log in to turn off these ads.