Does anyone understand networks? PLEASE. RESOLVED.

[effpeetee]

I am trying for the umpteenth time, to instal a home network. Desktop to Laptop. Both have Windows 7 retail Professional installed. I have just re-installed the OS again on both computers to have a clean start. Both have free access to the internet through a brand new DLink router. Using Opendns.

I have googled and found a few help pages. I have followed them to the letter with absolutely no success. I have been told (buy the installation program) that my router cannot connect to the internet even though it demonstratably is connected. I am beginning to doubt my own sanity.

If it really is impossible to have a network, I'll just have to accept it, but I cannot believe that. Surely somebody, somewhere can help me. PLEASE.

Frank (alias effpeetee)

EDIT: I have found this site. I'll study it and try again. I'll let you know how it goes.
And another here.

[oracleguy]

It should be pretty much plug and play. Are you using the DHCP for your local network on the router?

[effpeetee]

Originally Posted by oracleguy

It should be pretty much plug and play. Are you using the DHCP for your local network on the router?

Pardon my ignorance, but what is DHCP. My router is set up for OpenDNS which is working OK. The internet is freely available to both computers and they both have Windows 7 Professional in them.

I have managed to get the printer sharing OK but nothing else. My knowledge of networking is just what I have read from the articles mentioned above. But I had no trouble with windows XP. I expected Windows 7 to be a doddle. No such luck for me at least.

Frank

I just remebered Google. I found this. Looks like time for some studying.
The trouble is, at 84 yrs old, it is a bit indigestible for me. Any short cuts very welcome.

[Fumigator]

Network troubleshooting is so difficult to do through a forum. But I noticed something you said that confused me. You said you can access internet through this router from both computers, but you also said

I have been told (buy the installation program) that my router cannot connect to the internet even though it demonstratably is connected

Which seems to contradict your declaration of internet access.

I wouldn't bother with that DHCP document you linked to. Way too much info you don't really need. Here's what you need to know about DHCP:

The way TCP/IP networks work is each computer has a unique IP address. This address can be manually assigned through the TCP/IP settings, or it can be automatically assigned by a DHCP server. Think of DHCP as an attendant at the door of the network handing out seating assignments. That's all it does-- hands out seat reservations for dinner.

A simple home network, with no internet involved, is as easy as getting all computers assigned an IP address, all with the same gateway value and subnet mask value. For example:

Computer 1:
IP address: 10.0.0.100
gateway: 10.0.0.1
subnet: 255.255.255.0

Computer 2:
IP address: 10.0.0.101
gateway: 10.0.0.1
subnet: 255.255.255.0

Keep in mind in this scenario all these IP addresses are private to just your network and cannot be accessed from computers outside your network.

Now for the sticky part. Most internet access is through a provider which gives you one IP address, which changes all the time no less, which your router handles the traffic for. Your home network still has to assign individual IP addresses to each computer, but your internet provider only gives you one public IP address. To solve the problem, your router uses fancy network crap to split the traffic to and from the public IP address down to each individual computer on the home network. So your computers are assigned a private IP address that can't be seen by the outside world, and the router handles getting traffic from and to each computer through your one single public IP address.

Confusing Enough!?!?!

Now I say all that to say this: If you are indeed connected to the internet through a single IP address and each computer can get to the internet, then each computer should also be able to see each other. One reason your home computers may not be seeing each other, is because your home computers are actually using different PUBLIC IP addresses to get to the internet, which have different gateways and/or different subnet masks. This happened to me a few months ago. I THOUGHT my router was internally handling a single public IP address and splitting it into different private IP addresses, but my router was actually getting served a different public IP address for each computer on my network, and each of these public IP addresses had different gateways!

If I were you, I would check the detailed TCP/IP status info for each computer to see what the IP address, gateway, and subnet masks are. If the gateways or subnets are different, there's your problem.

Good luck.

[Spookster]

It is likely that your router is already set up for DHCP which means it will automatically assign IP addresses for your desktop and laptop. With Windows if you want your desktop and laptop to be able to see each other on the network you will need to make sure both use the same Workgroup name. For the majority of home networks using the Microsoft Workgroup is the only feasible way you are going to allow your computers to see each other. Then you can access any shared drives or shared printers that you may need.

http://kroycom.com/blog/how-to-join-...p-in-windows-7

[Fumigator]

http://kroycom.com/blog/how-to-join-...p-in-windows-7

Spookster that link was blocked by Websense for being a SEX website!

I guess Websense gets it wrong occasionally. Who woulda thought.

[effpeetee]

T
Fumigator.
hank you for that most helpful explanation. Regarding the internet access, The error message was given using the original articles' instructions. There is no doubt about the internet access for each computer. They both find the internet without any problems, used together or seperately.

which gives you one IP address, which changes all the time no less

I am using OpenDNS which I know is OK. It has a sub program that updates the address to Opendns each time that it changes. Incidentally my router indicates that DHCP is used. I'll read and digest what you have said and get back as soon as I have anything to say or plead! Now to print out that post.


EDIT: Thanks to you all. If I can't get it working now, I'll go back to hammer and chisel and blocks of stone. I'll let you know.

(Where's that anvil?)
Frank

[oracleguy]

Originally Posted by Fumigator

One reason your home computers may not be seeing each other, is because your home computers are actually using different PUBLIC IP addresses to get to the internet, which have different gateways and/or different subnet masks. This happened to me a few months ago. I THOUGHT my router was internally handling a single public IP address and splitting it into different private IP addresses, but my router was actually getting served a different public IP address for each computer on my network, and each of these public IP addresses had different gateways!

I've seen that happen when people incorrectly plug their modem into one of the switch ports on their router and instead of the WAN port.

Frank,

On each computer, go to start > run, type cmd and hit enter. Then in the command window it opens up, type ipconfig and hit enter. Post the output of the command from each computer and it should give us a much clearer idea of what is going on.

If your router is working properly and both computers can access the internet, they should be able to access each other. With the IP configuration we should be able to determine if they can and give better instructions.

[Fumigator]

Originally Posted by oracleguy

I've seen that happen when people incorrectly plug their modem into one of the switch ports on their router and instead of the WAN port.

Yeah my problem was I thought the canopy on my roof that receives the internet signal was serving up IP addresses (because it had been doing so for 2 years). My provider one day turned that off, and I started getting served IP addresses from my provider's DHCP server from their offices; in other words, I was bridged directly to the internet, which left me pretty vulnerable to boot. Thanks provider!

Anyways I got myself a router and it solved everything... But I did not intend to hijack Frank's network thread so please carry on!

[effpeetee]

This is what I get plus others that do not seem relevant.

Frank

Desktop PC
IPv4 Address . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 192.168.1.2
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 192.168.1.1

Laptop
Link/Local IPV6 Address ………………………..fe80::f961:1389:dfeb:bdef%11
IPV4 Address…………………………………………..192.168.1.3
Subnet Mask…………………………………………..255.255.255.0
Default Gateway……………………………………..192.168.1.1

[oracleguy]

Excellent, so your computers are on the same network and you don't have the issue Fumigator mentioned.

So I assume you want to share files between the two computers? If so, as an example, if you shared a folder on your desktop and want to access it on your laptop, (on the laptop) just go to start then run and type \\192.168.1.2 and it should bring up the other computer.

It may ask you for a username and password, if it does, enter your username and password on the other computer. And a word of warning, if I remember right, accounts with blank passwords won't work for that.

[effpeetee]

Originally Posted by oracleguy

Excellent, so your computers are on the same network and you don't have the issue Fumigator mentioned.

So I assume you want to share files between the two computers? If so, as an example, if you shared a folder on your desktop and want to access it on your laptop, (on the laptop) just go to start then run and type \\192.168.1.2 and it should bring up the other computer.

It may ask you for a username and password, if it does, enter your username and password on the other computer. And a word of warning, if I remember right, accounts with blank passwords won't work for that.

Thanks oracleguy,

That worked. Just the details to sort out now.
Thanks also to all those who have contributed to this post.
I can now sleep nights.

Frank

(another fine mess you have all gotten me out of.)

[abduraooft]

Originally Posted by oracleguy

It should be pretty much plug and play.

Yeah, but as someone said, for most of the time it's "plug and pray"

[oracleguy]

Originally Posted by abduraooft

Yeah, but as someone said, for most of the time it's "plug and pray"

I haven't heard that in a long time. Sadly it was true back in the Windows 95 days.