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  1. #1
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    Website in Javascript

    I believe I need some help or advice. I hired a company to develop my website. This site is not yet complete. The issue is they have used javascript. I have just learned that this is useless for a website while getting SEO proposals.

    What is my next step? Can the Java script be converted to HTML?

    Here is the website http://www.costaricacigarstore.com.
    If any one has advice or proposals for solutions, please email me at
    sales@costaricacigarstore.com.

    Thanks

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    were it a site designed for me by a company, I would not pay them until they had done the site properly which, for me, means making it in xhtml.

    Of course, it depends on the brief you gave them and whether there is anything in there that lets them do as they seem to have done.

    I would think that if you simply asked for a site to be done and this is what they have given you, they are not good at all. A website these days cannot be built without also being capable of search engine optimisation and search engines do not read javascript so they can't index your pages. (Javascript is different from Java, just to clarify, FYI).

    this independent code checker - operated by the worldwide web consortium (W3C), also gives reason to query thier capabilities.

    http://validator.w3.org/check?verbos...arstore.com%2F

    run that check on everyone of your pages.

    I don't like the concept where a client commissions a site and then tries to wriggle out of paying. However, javascript is disabled in about 20% odd of peoples browsers so a website that relies on JS is unusable by that percentage of customers. And, if they heard about your site from someone else, by word of mouth perhaps, they wonl;t be able to get around it is they have JS disabled - like I do.

    In summary then, it is an unservicable site and therefore not of merchantable quality. As such, I would argue that it isn't ready to be paid for.



    bazz
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    mickymoose (09-02-2010)

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    Quote Originally Posted by bazz View Post
    I don't like the concept where a client commissions a site and then tries to wriggle out of paying. However, javascript is disabled in about 20% odd of peoples browsers so a website that relies on JS is unusable by that percentage of customers.
    bazz
    20% ? That's really high. I know years ago the "reliable" number was 10% and with all the social networking sites and similar so dependent on JS, the number I keep using for general public sites is 5%.

    Also, I would be careful in approaching the developer on using javascript, especially if you asked for a lot of dynamic features and bells and whistles (modal overlays, popups, facebook integration, etc), which need javascript (AJAX / JQuery) to optimally enhance the experience. I've seen more and more sites that are very heavy on javascript and / or flash which are also impossible to index from an SEO perspective.

    However, there should be some default degradation to XHTML (or HTML) with every page. Look at the source code of each page. If all they have is a few calls to a Javascript library, then they haven't built you a site that is indexable in Search Engines, but they did still build you a site.

    However, it sounds like this is a case of the programmer not educating the client in the requirements phase. One of the first questions they should have asked is "how do you plan on marketing the site". This would have led to an SEO question, and they would have known to account for that.

    Also, keep in mind caveat emptor. One of the BIG reasons I push back the rates I charge is because I know what clients usually want, and I know a lot of the ins and outs of SEO and proper coding. Many times the $5 / hr guru programmer simply reads a spec and spits back code, without asking critical questions.

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    OK, 20% might be a bit high but I seem to recall reading its between 10 and 20 so i round it up to allow for increases.

    I agree that more and more sites use JS/AJAX etc for improved functionality. However, imv, they should never be used for navigation, which search engines use for spidering the site. I suppose a patch could be deployed i.e. a sitemap but if the navigation was built without JS such an extra wouldn't really be required.


    bazz
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    It looks like they are using AJAX to pull in the respective files into the main template. This can be fixed yes but we need more information. Do you know where you files are stored? Are the urls in a database? Are they in a folder somewhere? Every link on your site uses AJAX to load its content.
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    Oh no, all the links are non-functional without JS. For me as noscript user this is a pain in the butt.

    Quote Originally Posted by bcarl314 View Post
    Also, I would be careful in approaching the developer on using javascript, especially if you asked for a lot of dynamic features and bells and whistles (modal overlays, popups, facebook integration, etc), which need javascript (AJAX / JQuery) to optimally enhance the experience. I've seen more and more sites that are very heavy on javascript and / or flash which are also impossible to index from an SEO perspective.
    I’m always wondering that so many people still haven’t understood the principle of progressive enhancement wheich can also be applied to the most dynamic sites (even the guys at Google use cheap browser sniffing methods to serve different content to different user agents, e. g. in Gmail). But one really good example of a JavaScript/AJAX heavy site that’s still working more than well without JS enabled is Yahoo (try it!).

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    20% of users have js disabled..? I don't believe in making a website dependant on javascript but where the hell did you get this number? O_O Fair enough it used to be like this but that must of been a long time ago...

    As for that site, tbh I don't know if it's just my PC or my internet (which I doubt [i'm not being arragont here ¬_¬]) but pages load fairly slowly for me... Not super slow, but no-where near insantanious.

    Did you give the company a brief? If you specified that you needed the site to be SEO friendly you could tell them to pretty much redo that because it is what you requested and there is no way that is going to be popular with SE's. You may get away with requesting him to redo it either way? I would of never went into a project in how I want it done, I would always tripple check with the client bombarding them with questions to make sure what I am doing is what they want, it's your money and your site you do have the right. Agree'd with VIPStephen, you don't NEED to have javascript just because every other site is, it's up to you how you want your site to work..

    Edit:

    Just found this for browser statistic of cause it's not RELIABLE and solid proof, but it is a foundation to base estimates on...
    www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
    With these in mind though, I'd never build a site purely reliant on javascript, create the back-end first.. THEN start adding effects.
    Last edited by Jazz914; 08-31-2010 at 03:25 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VIPStephan View Post
    I’m always wondering that so many people still haven’t understood the principle of progressive enhancement wheich can also be applied to the most dynamic sites (even the guys at Google use cheap browser sniffing methods to serve different content to different user agents, e. g. in Gmail). But one really good example of a JavaScript/AJAX heavy site that’s still working more than well without JS enabled is Yahoo (try it!).
    I totally agree. Javascript SHOULD be used for UI enhancement only, not core functionality. As per WAI / 508 guidelines.

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    I thank you all for your input. Now I have to figure out my next step.

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    I am trying to arange a meeting next week between my programmers and an SEO specialist.

    The AJAX url files are located in the database. Does this allow this to be fixed or does it need to be thrown out and done over?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mickymoose View Post
    I am trying to arange a meeting next week between my programmers and an SEO specialist.

    The AJAX url files are located in the database. Does this allow this to be fixed or does it need to be thrown out and done over?
    Do you have example of what you mean by the Ajax URL files

  • #12
    The fat guy next door VIPStephan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickymoose View Post
    The AJAX url files are located in the database. Does this allow this to be fixed or does it need to be thrown out and done over?
    No, anything in the database can be retreived in the conventional way. As a matter of fact, AJAX is doing the same things plain PHP would do, only that it updates the respective sections of the page on the fly and doesn’t require a reload of the entire page.

    So, basically all you need to do is convert the links that only invoke a JS/AJAX function right now to regular links (i. e. with reference to new pages that are compiled from the chunks of content stored in the database by PHP or whatever server side language you use) and you’re fine.

    You can then, once the core functionality is working without the need of JS and/or CSS, still enhance the functionality with AJAX, so that it doesn’t require the entire page to load but only retreives the sections that are being updated on the click of a link.


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