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  1. #16
    Supreme Master coder! Philip M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knightCoder View Post
    You are making the assumption that the students actually want to become web developers but
    Why does that matter? If I buy a copy of a book, it is mine to do with as I will, but that does not give me the right to claim that I wrote it.

    I for one am disturbed by Knightcoder's tolerant (complicit??) attitude towards dishonesty, but sadly it is one which is all too common these days.

    Knightcoder seems to admit that he is perfectly willing to do students' homework for them ... for money of course.
    I have to say that I regard that attitude with contempt. If I discovered that Knightcoder was an employee of mine, he would be shown the door at once.

    All the code given in this post has been tested and is intended to address the question asked.
    Unless stated otherwise it is not just a demonstration.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philip M View Post
    Why does that matter?
    Because these students have no intention of becoming web developers and if it was up to them they would not even do the subject as part of their course.

    They want more time to spend on the subjects more important to them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Philip M View Post
    If I buy a copy of a book, it is mine to do with as I will, but that does not give me the right to claim that I wrote it.
    Of course because the author probably has the copyright.

    But if you actually read and understood my posts you would see

    When I receive payment I hand over any rights I may have had to the code and it then becomes totally their property and they can claim it as their own, since they purchased it, and they can do what they like with it.

  3. #18
    Supreme Master coder! Philip M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knightCoder View Post
    When I receive payment I hand over any rights I may have had to the code and it then becomes totally their property and they can claim it as their own, since they purchased it, and they can do what they like with it.

    It may be their property, but they still ought not to falsely claim that it represents their own work. That is unambiguously dishonest, and as I see it you are complicit in that dishonesty. In my book that makes you rotten and corrupt as well.

    All the code given in this post has been tested and is intended to address the question asked.
    Unless stated otherwise it is not just a demonstration.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philip M View Post
    It may be their property, but they still ought not to falsely claim that it represents their own work.
    What they do with it is up to them. I give up all ownership to what I give them, since they have paid for it, and I do not claim ownership or any rights to the code after I hand it over to them.

  5. #20
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    It is a common misbelief that if you want to do X, X is all you need to know. Every profession comes with a certain range of basics that are essential even if they are not necessary in everyday life (for that profession).
    For example: I studied math, but even if I studied informatics, I would've learned about Taylor series and similar things. Things that literally never so much as come up in my everday job.
    But it's not always just about the knowledge of the subject itself, but also about knowledge in other subjects and, often more importantly, the skills these other things teach you.

    I don't have any problems making a very general claim that someone who is unable to learn basic Javascript will not be able to become a (useful) computer scientist of any kind. If you're unable or unwilling to be able to understand basic Javascript, you either lack the competence or the necessary motivation to work in computer sciences.

    @knightCoder

    Ownership in this case doesn't matter. If that was a "way out" of cheating, I could've bought my final thesis from soneone. But I couldn't. And why not? Because educational institutions demand that you actually created the work you hand in yourself, not just that it is legally yours.

    Helping someone to cheat may not be illegal and heck, I don't even care if it's morally wrong. The one thing you can not argue your way out of is that it is not their own work – and that is exactly what schools demand.

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  7. #21
    Senior Coder rnd me's Avatar
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    it's not so much about the homework to me, maybe itt'l be a career-ender, maybe not. If it's a class someone hates anyway, i don't see the social harm in just trying to get it over with as easily and quickly as possible. I would hate for the next watson or crick to wash out of biology because they failed an intro comp sci course, which have quite the meat-grinder reputation, at least here where UIUC's CS is among the best programs in the world. That said, i personally won't help anyone cheat if i can help it.

    i also realize, now, that my reputation is worth far more than $50. Somehow my new employer came across my postings here before i was hired. Didn't take a rocket scientist to make the connection. I would hate for them to have seen something to the effect of "i don't care about honesty, just gimme the fifty bucks". I have a lot of great work posted, and relatively few not-so-proud posts (i think). Beyond that, $50 is not really worth the effort of arranging payment and dealing with follow-up emails. I wouldn't consider any freelance work that started at under $1000, but that's me.

    to me, offering a paid answer via PM is the greater dis-service. Look at the view/post ratio on many of these posts. Those and the common resurrection of ancient threads lead me to believe that far more people are served by a answer than just the OP. This is why SO wouldn't put up with such malarkey.

    It's fair to say that we don't know the OP, his class, or it's rules. Sometimes it's allowed to get help online. This is likely a bit too much help for even liberal academic comfort, but i'm not going to throw stones. I just wish that whenever an problem to a vexing challenge is found that the answers could be peer-reviewed. Otherwise, how is the OP to know if he got a good answer or not?
    Last edited by rnd me; 04-05-2013 at 08:02 PM.
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  8. #22
    Master Coder felgall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rnd me View Post
    It's fair to say that we don't know the OP, his class, or it's rules. Sometimes it's allowed to get help online.
    It is however against the rules of this forum. The OP has breached rule 1.5 of this forum by asking to have their homework done for them. They also breached rule 1.2 by cross posting their request in two forums.

    In responding to the request knightCoder has breached rule 1.4 of this forum by responding to the OP's request - which on this forum at least is illegal - because it breaks the rules applying to the forum.

    I can't see the point of a course where paying someone else to do it for you with you getting the qualification for their work but even if that is allowed for the OP's course they still are breaking the forum rules by asking for that help here.


    Anyway even if the OP doesn't want to become a web developer, they are taking a computing course of some sort where a minimum understanding of programming is considered to be necessary (otherwise they wouldn't include it in the course). Even if they never do any programming again that lack of knowledge of what programming involves that will result from their having someone else do that part of the work for them WILL impact on their ability to use the material from the rest of the course and may even affect their ability to properly understand other subjects that assume that the person has learnt what the programming course taught.
    Last edited by felgall; 04-05-2013 at 08:26 PM.
    Stephen
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    Don't forget to start your JavaScript code with "use strict"; which makes it easier to find errors in your code.

  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by felgall View Post
    In responding to the request knightCoder has breached rule 1.4 of this forum by responding to the OP's request - which on this forum at least is illegal - because it breaks the rules applying to the forum.
    You really can't help telling one lie after another about other members can you

    Rule 1.4 is

    • 1.4) No illegal requests- Do not post requests that are illegal or break the usage terms of the service in question, such as where to download warez, disable pop up ads on your free host etc.
    Where is the illegal request you say I have posted that is supposedly in breach of the above rule?

    If anyone thinks I have done anything illegal then they should report me to the police or other appropriate authority and we can settle the matter in a court of law and at the same time I can expose the things that have been said by members that are not true.

    Has anyone got the guts to take what I do and how I do it to court?

  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airblader View Post
    Helping someone to cheat may not be illegal and heck, I don't even care if it's morally wrong. The one thing you can not argue your way out of is that it is not their own work – and that is exactly what schools demand.
    I am not bound by what schools may or may not demand because I am not a student of any of them.

    I relinquish all rights to any ownership I may have had on code after I hand it over. What a student does with it afterwards is entirely up to them.

    If people think what I am doing is illegal in anyway, then by not trying to stop me in a court of law then they are in effect condoning what I do and how I do it.

    Members jumping up and down in a forum saying what I am doing is bad, blah blah, blah and doing nothing to try to stop me is creating a facade that pretends to criticise what I do while in reality actually condoning it because they don't do a single thing to try to stop me.

  11. #25
    God Emperor Fou-Lu's Avatar
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    There is illegal, and then there is unethical. It's not illegal for me to view the emails of employees in my corporation as that is part of what I control and the emails themselves do belong to the corporation; however, it is unethical to do so, and will only be done through the proper channels of request and approval. In some situations unethical behaviour can lead to illegal or subvert behaviour.

    You may not be bound to TOS on a student's educational facilities; however, that student is. It is *highly* probable that facility includes provisions for plagiarism in their TOS, and is likely not tolerated. They get caught, and they get a nice 0. Therefore, the request itself does fall in line with rule §1.4 asking to have software written that violates TOS on top of §1.5 which is specific provisions for homework assignments. Your complicity is simply enabling them to violate their TOS and that behaviour is very unethical.

    The claim that not every one wants to be a web developer and therefore doesn't need to learn the material is absolute rubbish. I don't like to cook dinner either, but if I don't do it I'll starve to death. I could get someone else to do it of course, for a price, but in the long run that surely will cost me a lot, and I'll have learned nothing. Besides, what will I eat when a holiday comes around if nobody is around to make it? Just because you don't like doing something doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. In the same token, if the course material dictates that you will learn web development, than it is expected that you will learn the material. That is why a final exam exists to measure the knowledge of the material, and those that get others to do their work for them will often be exposed during this examination.
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  13. #26
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    You may wanna read my post again because I said that it's not illegal*. But if you think you're so clean on this, I don't quite get the reason for why copyright issues matter here – your copyright or not, it doesn't change anything.

    I personally think it is morally wrong to help someone cheat the class. It is unfair to everyone else who does this on their own and it is unfair to the person asking, but the latter I don't mind too much if they have been "warned" about the consequences before (simply because they'll feel the consequences of their actions eventually).
    I just don't think arguing what the most objective point of view is and whether or not it is morally wrong from that point of view is worth the trouble, it rarely leads to something. But in my opinion it is wrong, and apprently in many others. I'd go as far to say that cheating is generally known to be morally wrong, but, sadly, also socially accepted in some cases ("everyone's doing it at some point").

    Also, I wouldn't say arguing about this is "not doing anything". Obviously we're trying to convince you that this is inacceptable behavior (in our opinion).

    *) Even if it were illegal, that does not imply that it is illegal not to report it. In Germany, for example, only not reporting felonys is a criminal offense.

  14. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fou-Lu View Post
    The claim that not every one wants to be a web developer and therefore doesn't need to learn the material is absolute rubbish.
    I doubt the students who aim to be Network engineers will agree with you.

    But in any case,

    The way I see it,

    Members jumping up and down in a forum saying what I am doing is bad, blah blah, blah and doing nothing to try to stop me is creating a facade that pretends to criticise what I do while in reality actually condoning it because they don't do a single thing to try to stop me
    .

    If anyone thinks I have done anything illegal then they should report me to the police or other appropriate authority and we can settle the matter in a court of law and at the same time I can expose the things that have been said by members that are not true.
    otherwise noting at all will change.

  15. #28
    Master Coder felgall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knightCoder View Post
    Where is the illegal request you say I have posted that is supposedly in breach of the above rule?
    1.4) No illegal requests- Do not post requests that are illegal or break the usage terms of the service in question, such as where to download warez, disable pop up ads on your free host etc.
    In this instance the usage terms you have broken is in responding to illegal (on this forum at least) requests to have homework done - which is illegal in that it breaks rule 1.5 of the forum and therefore your encouraging it is also a breach of the forum rules as written.

    Anyway the best you can hope for now is that a moderator will feel sorry for you and delete both of the threads on this topic before any potential employers see the thread and realise that you couldn't care less about following the rules and therefore are not a suitable candidate for employment.

    As for your comment about lying - that is a clear breach of rule 1.1 which again demonstrates that you don't care about following rules.
    Stephen
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    Don't forget to start your JavaScript code with "use strict"; which makes it easier to find errors in your code.

  16. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by felgall View Post
    ...... and therefore are not a suitable candidate for employment.
    You've got no idea have you and you obviously have no idea what you are talking about .

    Tell me why you think I should care about what employers think of what I do. I haven't needed to be in the workforce for a few years now

  17. #30
    God Emperor Fou-Lu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knightCoder View Post
    I doubt the students who aim to be Network engineers will agree with you.
    I disagree. Do you think I enjoyed taking technical documentation whilst majoring in programming? Nope, I sure didn't. But that sure did pay off given that I can write technical documents like a demon now.
    Still doesn't change that it is unethical to cheat.
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