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  1. #1
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    XHTML support range

    1. So if XHTML is going to take over, will HTML4.0- still be supported by the XML browsers?
    2. Is XHTML supported by IE4+ and/or NS5+ as to date?
    3. And does this mean that the META tags will no longer be optional in Coding HTML?

    Thanks,
    Guardian

  • #2
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    Code:
    <?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1"?>
    <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.1//EN"
    "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml11/DTD/xhtml11.dtd">
    <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xml:lang="en">
    	<head>
    		<title></title>
    		<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;charset=iso-8859-1;" />
    		<script type="text/javascript">
    		</script>
    	</head>
    
    	<body>
    		<p>Content</p>
    	</body>
    </html>
    I use following (valid) "template" nearly always when I make a document. All the browsers (since 4th version) displays the document with pretty similar look with this DTD.
    Zvona
    First Aid for
    Web Design

  • #3
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    My opinion:

    XHTML is never going to take over - It is an interim standard which will be unecessary once XML is fully prevalent. Coding to XHTML is a waste of time - it creates as many problems as it solves and generally results in larger html files with no improvement in rendering speed or efficiency.

  • #4
    jkd
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    I write all my current documents in XHTML. Why?

    When I can safely turn everything into XML, I can write a simple XSLT document to transform my XHTML. If it was in HTML, it would take a long time to port documents.

    Only problem is when IE sees an XHTML 1.0 Strict or higher XHTML doctype, it goes into quirks mode.

    Which means if IE is important to you, XHTML 1.0 Transitional is the highest you can go. Which is stupid, considering you have 1.0 Strict, Modular XHTML, XHTML Basic, and XHTML 1.1 after that.

  • #5
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    Also,XHTML code is alot easier to read.Because off the lowercase attributes/tags and the atttribute values which need to be quoted.

  • #6
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    Originally posted by jkd
    When I can safely turn everything into XML, I can write a simple XSLT document to transform my XHTML. If it was in HTML, it would take a long time to port documents.

    Fair enough ... but that presupposes some future point at which you want to port existing documents otherwise unchanged to xml. I don't see that happening, because between now and then you may want to change the design, or the content significantly, or the construction in order to allow for the idiosynchrasies and rendering quirks of each new browser as it's released.

    The point i'm making here is that coding to for "future compatibility" is kind of spurious - as if you're just gonna trust what you did in the first place and not check or modify it in new browsers as they come out.

    Standards, however strongly they're applied, cannot account for the rendering behaviour of future browsers; that's a different issue entirely which always needs to be manually accounted for.

  • #7
    jkd
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    Originally posted by brothercake
    Standards, however strongly they're applied, cannot account for the rendering behaviour of future browsers; that's a different issue entirely which always needs to be manually accounted for.
    But the entire point of standards is not to rewrite your entire site any time a new browser gains a significant market share of browsers. Only irresponsible companies who do not care about the developer (*cough* MS *cough* IE) would not implement standards as they are currently described. I feel very confident any product claiming to be web browser 5 years from now will render my XHTML 1.1 document styled with CSS2 pretty much identically to how it was intended to look (*cough* as it does currently in Gecko *cough*). It should also be able to manipulate the document via my DOM2 scripting identically to the way it currently is in Gecko.

  • #8
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    Originally posted by jkd
    [B]Only problem is when IE sees an XHTML 1.0 Strict or higher XHTML doctype, it goes into quirks mode.
    IE has probs? ha, i had a perfect piece of XHTML strict coding that displayed fine in IE but Moz and NS6 would only display iwhtout the doctype ans NS4 is nowhere.

    I always code in XHTML, it's neater and much easier for other people to read, I just leave out the doctype.
    "To be successful in IT you don't need to know everything - just where to find it in under 30 seconds"

    (Me Me Me Me Me Me Me Me Me)

  • #9
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    Originally posted by jkd
    But the entire point of standards is not to rewrite your entire site any time a new browser gains a significant market share of browsers.
    Oh yeah, I totally agree, but I take a pragmatic point of view in response - it's never gonna happen.

    What you describe as irresponsible disregard for standards is a commercial phenomenon - if all browsers implemented the standards in exactly the same way, there would be nothing to attract developers to a particular platform. By working the way it does, Microsoft encourage developers to develop for their products in all kinds of ways - by allowing code to be sloppy, by including proprietary multimeda features and other such eye candy, by building in highly unsafe but also incredibly useful ActiveX controls (useful, providing you use them to interact with other microsoft products )

    I'm not happy about that state of affairs ... in my opinion it's merely one of a billion different symptoms that come down to a fundamental problem with capitalism ...

    But whatever. My boss doesn't care about my philiosophy. He doesn't care about the code. He wants it to look like the picture.
    My experience is that the only way to acheive this cross-browser is to disregard standards and just do what works.
    Last edited by brothercake; 07-05-2002 at 08:08 PM.

  • #10
    jkd
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    Originally posted by ReadMe.txt


    IE has probs? ha, i had a perfect piece of XHTML strict coding that displayed fine in IE but Moz and NS6 would only display iwhtout the doctype ans NS4 is nowhere.

    I always code in XHTML, it's neater and much easier for other people to read, I just leave out the doctype.
    You ever stop and think for a moment that IE was the one rendering it incorrectly? Just because it validates does not mean it renders as you desired. Look at it in Opera 6, which ever structure it then closest resembles is the correct one, which is more than likely the way Gecko rendered it.

    You were probably taking advantage of the quirks mode rendering in IE.

  • #11
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    Speaking of which, is there any way to bypass the "quirks mode" in IE so that the page displays as it should, and only as it should in HTML/XHTML, etc.?

    Guardian

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    Standards compliant mode is switched on by certain doctypes - including xhtml and strict - in the absence of such a doctype, quirks mode is enabled. check out http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/de...hancements.asp


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