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  1. #1
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    Is Dreamweaver free yet?

    If not, what would be a good freeware alternative?

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    Regular Coder medigerati's Avatar
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    No, dreamweaver still costs money. Are you looking for a text editor or WYSIWYG?
    If you need a little more help, I'm available as a Website designer in San Antonio
    ----------
    If I've helped, please check out my friend's nature photography and let me know if you like anything.

  • #3
    Supreme Master coder! _Aerospace_Eng_'s Avatar
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    Kompozer is very similar to Dreamweaver and it is free.
    ||||If you are getting paid to do a job, don't ask for help on it!||||

  • #4
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    I dunno, I could actually care less, but actually, there are a lot of script kiddies running businesses now that are trying to make sites, and I was curious if there was something good out there that was also free that made stuff in CSS. Is Dreamweaver still doing tables?

    Thanks guys.

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    Supreme Master coder! _Aerospace_Eng_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by myriad360 View Post
    I dunno, I could actually care less, but actually, there are a lot of script kiddies running businesses now that are trying to make sites, and I was curious if there was something good out there that was also free that made stuff in CSS. Is Dreamweaver still doing tables?

    Thanks guys.
    Dreamweaver does what you tell it. If you code by hand it doesn't "do" tables. I use it all of the time and I code tables by hand when I need to. Dreamweaver is a tool. If you don't learn to use it properly you get crappy code.
    ||||If you are getting paid to do a job, don't ask for help on it!||||

  • #6
    The fat guy next door VIPStephan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Aerospace_Eng_ View Post
    Dreamweaver is a tool. If you don't learn to use it properly you get crappy code.
    As you will with any other tool (editor).

    Quote Originally Posted by myriad360 View Post
    […] there are a lot of script kiddies running businesses now that are trying to make sites […]
    Please, please, I ask you to not be one of them. Learn properly what you’re gonna and do it properly. If you wanna make money with websites learn how to create them in a professional manner (i.e. learn HTML and CSS, learn about accesibility and usability, learn about progressive enhancement, and write semantic code by hand, learn about design principles and psychology in the internet).

    Know what you’re doing when doing something. Any editor program is just as good as you and if you’re not proficient with your stuff no editor can help you in the long run.
    Last edited by VIPStephan; 02-25-2008 at 08:17 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VIPStephan View Post
    Please, please, I ask you to not be one of them. Learn properly what youíre gonna and do it properly. If you wanna make money with websites learn how to create them in a professional manner (i.e. learn HTML and CSS, learn about accesibility and usability, learn about progressive enhancement, and write semantic code by hand, learn about design principles and psychology in the internet).
    Thanks for all the good links. I actually learned CSS and XHTML with PHP a couple years ago, but since forgot it as I never found anyone with money needing a web programmer. REALLY? To make money, do these things? Maybe to make good sites, but I find the money thing quite laughable.

    But I would definitely enjoy being wrong, so feel free to make your case.

    Thanks again.

  • #8
    Supreme Master coder! _Aerospace_Eng_'s Avatar
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    The better you are at your job the more you can charge. If you create poor quality websites those clients won't be hiring you again.
    ||||If you are getting paid to do a job, don't ask for help on it!||||

  • #9
    Senior Coder jcdevelopment's Avatar
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    I tried going at it on my own, but i did fail.. Thats why now, i work for tha man!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by _Aerospace_Eng_ View Post
    The better you are at your job the more you can charge. If you create poor quality websites those clients won't be hiring you again.
    Thanks for economics 101. Listen, this is quite understandable, but the point I was trying to imply is that you can't seem to swing a dead cat without hitting a good, underpaid web developer, so as a programmer, you should probably put your efforts elsewhere. 'The better you are at your job the more you can charge.' ... this seems severely understated, and someone taking this advice would probably find web dev a labor hole. The market is flooded with this kind of labor, so do yourself a favor and specialize in something else. There is some economics.

  • #11
    The fat guy next door VIPStephan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by myriad360 View Post
    Thanks for economics 101. Listen, this is quite understandable, but the point I was trying to imply is that you can't seem to swing a dead cat without hitting a good, underpaid web developer, so as a programmer, you should probably put your efforts elsewhere. 'The better you are at your job the more you can charge.' ... this seems severely understated, and someone taking this advice would probably find web dev a labor hole. The market is flooded with this kind of labor, so do yourself a favor and specialize in something else. There is some economics.
    Iím sorry, although I think of myself as having a decent knowledge of the English language I canít make any sense out of what you are saying.
    Iím earning some money with front-end web development and there are actually people/companies requiring well designed (in terms of semantics, accessibility, and usability) and professionally coded websites that do require serious developers that actually have specialized in such things because thatís a science in its own right.

    And although itís not happening every day there actually are people/companies paying a good price for decent work of such kind. Of course, if youíre hiring a $5 programmer from India or Eastern Europe you can almost be certain how much quality you will get. The price does reflect the quality of the work, or to say it vice versa: You always get what you pay for.

  • #12
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    Internet Explorer

    Quote Originally Posted by VIPStephan View Post
    Iím sorry, although I think of myself as having a decent knowledge of the English language I canít make any sense out of what you are saying.
    Iím earning some money with front-end web development and there are actually people/companies requiring well designed (in terms of semantics, accessibility, and usability) and professionally coded websites that do require serious developers that actually have specialized in such things because thatís a science in its own right.

    And although itís not happening every day there actually are people/companies paying a good price for decent work of such kind. Of course, if youíre hiring a $5 programmer from India or Eastern Europe you can almost be certain how much quality you will get. The price does reflect the quality of the work, or to say it vice versa: You always get what you pay for.
    I would not argue at all that SOME companies hire SOME people for good money as well. But this is not a clear indication of the market. Your and my experiences have been drastically different, so I thought I would update my research...
    http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos042.htm

    Now, I know things are different there in Germany, but I wouldn't argue that they are that different. If I were to tell bright-eyed, bushy-tailed programmers of the future what to specialize in, I would not taint them with the old advice from yesteryear. Web does not pay like it used to for entry level, but if you have some market data for that, definitely present it, because I would gladly be wrong on that! It seems clear it would be better to go for these jobs first (don't worry, hobbyist web skills are probably still a plus):
    Database manager $84,750 - $116,000
    Network architect 78,000 - 112,250
    Database developer 73,500 - 103,000
    Database administrator 70,250 - 102,000
    Network manager 68,750 - 93,000

    ...unless money is no object, and you don't have a University education to pay off.

    Cheers.

  • #13
    Supreme Master coder! _Aerospace_Eng_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by myriad360 View Post
    Thanks for economics 101. Listen, this is quite understandable, but the point I was trying to imply is that you can't seem to swing a dead cat without hitting a good, underpaid web developer, so as a programmer, you should probably put your efforts elsewhere. 'The better you are at your job the more you can charge.' ... this seems severely understated, and someone taking this advice would probably find web dev a labor hole. The market is flooded with this kind of labor, so do yourself a favor and specialize in something else. There is some economics.
    This is just a hobby. I'll be fine with my Masters in Software Engineering. So until you can take advice without getting defensive you'll be on ignore.
    ||||If you are getting paid to do a job, don't ask for help on it!||||

  • #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Aerospace_Eng_ View Post
    This is just a hobby. I'll be fine with my Masters in Software Engineering. So until you can take advice without getting defensive you'll be on ignore.
    This didn't come about talking about a hobby, this came about talking about making money with the skill. That is a profession. And I have not taking any defensive stances, I just feel like there is a substantial counter-argument. Someone who disagrees with you does not have to take an emotional context unless you yourself are defensive, and take it in that context. Lighten up, chap.

    Oh, and bravo listing your degree accomplishments in a debate.
    Last edited by myriad360; 02-26-2008 at 05:14 AM.

  • #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIPStephan View Post
    As you will with any other tool (editor).



    Please, please, I ask you to not be one of them. Learn properly what youíre gonna and do it properly. ...
    I wanted to highlight this point, because it is useful. I have been so worried doing new languages like C++ of this, that I have been writing all my own classes. ... Well, that hasn't lasted long, because eventually you have to reuse code. But this is a point worth thanking, VIPStephan; if you can program, take some effort to not be a script kiddie. Unfortunately, too many people who will never code are. But that is what makes us programmers valuable; we know why code breaks. Great point.


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