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  1. #1
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    Better to alienate IE users?

    I am a huge advocate of HTML5 and the related Javascript API's, but IE doesn't support a lot of the features I want to use for a project I've been working on. So far the only features I need are XHR2 and SSE. IE10 supports XHR2 but it only has (last time I checked) about 1% market share. IE9 however is extremely close to overtaking IE8 at around 23%, but doesn't support either XHR2 or SSE. Every other browser supports these features, so would it be better to just alienate IE from this point on? Should I just update the code in 2014 when HTML5 is standardized and hopefully every browser will support all HTML5 features?

    The project is already big enough and I really don't want to have to find workarounds for IE, but at the same time I do want to have the best reach possible when this project is finished.
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    I think it depends on the project ... the demographics of the users, and what the website is used for. Can you tell us that?

  • #3
    Senior Coder alykins's Avatar
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    IMO alienating any browser is a bad business call (even if it is on an intranet where you will have full control.... case in point... that is how it is now with the project I am working on, and now they are wanting to spend extra $ to be able to move away from an intranet, and towards a web based standardization. Problem is they used features that only IE supports, and now that needs to be re-factored.

    Even if it is as simple as a redirect towards a text only landing site for IE, I think that is better than completely alienating them.

    Edit: And I haven't checked in a while, but last time I did check IE (as a whole) still had a majority market share for browser usage.

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    It would indeed be a bad business call to alienate folks from using IE for the site (as alykins had mentioned earlier). I would recommend placing a note somewhere in the footer -- a common location -- to state "best viewed in Mozilla Firefox, Opera, etc.” You may even include browser icons.

    If a use does access the site via IE, it may be fine to have a site that just has the content and attributes that do work in IE. The website is mainly about the content the user needs.

    I have a few parts of my website that aren't fully supported in IE that are done with CSS3. I'm quite fine with the static blocky appearance that shows up in IE since the layout still looks nice. Hopefully soon that IE will fully support both HTML5 & CSS3 and it'll be easier to have dynamic websites.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mlseim View Post
    I think it depends on the project ... the demographics of the users, and what the website is used for. Can you tell us that?
    It is a social network website/web app (for mobile users). So (basic) usage would be posting, commenting, uploading, etc. I guess I'll just postpone release, and find some workarounds for IE. Already using filters for CSS gradients for IE, so no real point in stopping workaround development now. Thanks guys.
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  • #6
    Master Coder felgall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elitis View Post
    (for mobile users).
    There are not any mobile devices that can run IE (unless some new ones have started using Windows 8 in which case they'd be running IE9 or IE10). You certainly could ignore IE8 if you are only concerned with mobile devices.
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    Quote Originally Posted by felgall View Post
    There are not any mobile devices that can run IE (unless some new ones have started using Windows 8 in which case they'd be running IE9 or IE10). You certainly could ignore IE8 if you are only concerned with mobile devices.
    Windows Phone 7.x/8 do and yes they run IE9/IE10 respectively. Or if we define mobile by including tablets there's Win8/WinRT. Either way the only difference between the mobile and desktop versions of the project will be a responsive design. Other than that all the code will remain nearly the same.
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    Senior Coder rnd me's Avatar
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    you can do binary downloads in IE using activeX, and you can long-poll with <script src=> back to IE4.

    What's a bigger diservace to more people:
    -making everyone wait for years?
    -making a small (and rapidly shrinking) minority wait forever?

    i would argue that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.


    just build it now and your reach will magically take care of itself by the time you would have done a rewrite...
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    Quote Originally Posted by rnd me View Post
    you can do binary downloads in IE using activeX, and you can long-poll with <script src=> back to IE4.

    What's a bigger diservace to more people:
    -making everyone wait for years?
    -making a small (and rapidly shrinking) minority wait forever?

    i would argue that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.


    just build it now and your reach will magically take care of itself by the time you would have done a rewrite...
    Would I be wrong to assume the "small minority" you're speaking of are IE users? If so I personally wouldn't consider them a minority. Windows, generally speaking, has the most market share, and considering it ships with IE it (IE) isn't really shrinking rapidly. However I do understand what you're saying.

    This is more or less what I plan to do. And I guess you could say my reach is taking care of itself considering the majority of IE9 users are being automatically updated to IE10.
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    I only mess about with blogs and tumblrs, so perhaps not relevant to your needs, but as far as I'm concerned IE users get what they deserve. I simply cannot be bothered pandering to the awfulness and incompatibility of IE. If my blog/tumblr looks messed up or doesn't function properly in IE, then so be it.

  • #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by alykins View Post
    IMO alienating any browser is a bad business call (even if it is on an intranet where you will have full control.... case in point... that is how it is now with the project I am working on, and now they are wanting to spend extra $ to be able to move away from an intranet, and towards a web based standardization. Problem is they used features that only IE supports, and now that needs to be re-factored.

    Even if it is as simple as a redirect towards a text only landing site for IE, I think that is better than completely alienating them.

    Edit: And I haven't checked in a while, but last time I did check IE (as a whole) still had a majority market share for browser usage.
    As of January, IE has 14.3%, FF has 30.2%, Chrome 48.4, Safari 4.2 and Opera 1.9% according to w3schools.

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  • #12
    Master Coder felgall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerry62704 View Post
    As of January, IE has 14.3%, FF has 30.2%, Chrome 48.4, Safari 4.2 and Opera 1.9% according to w3schools.
    That's a rather specialised site where you'd expect those visiting to be less inclined to use IE. For more general sites the percentage using IE is probably about two to three times that.
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  • #13
    Supreme Master coder! Philip M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by felgall View Post
    That's a rather specialised site where you'd expect those visiting to be less inclined to use IE. For more general sites the percentage using IE is probably about two to three times that.
    http://www.infoworld.com/t/web-brows...tistics-189228

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_s...#Summary_table
    Last edited by Philip M; 03-05-2013 at 08:32 AM.

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  • #14
    Master Coder felgall's Avatar
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    Interesting article Philip. Clearly demonstrates how browser usage varies between sites and how you can end up with totally different figures from different places simply because they calculate them differently.

    For the purpose of deciding whether to ignore IE or not given that you don't know what percentage would use it to visitor your site assuming your site worked for those visitors the only reasonable figure to use put of all the ones presented on the pages you linked to would be the 55.14% since from all that info there definitely are sites that get at least that percentage of their visitors from IE.

    So the question becomes one of "Do you want to potentially alienate over half of your visitors by not supporting what is still for most sites the most popular browser?".
    Stephen
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    To misquote the OP's sig:

    IE is a challenge, get used to it
    Use the W3C HTML Validator and CSS Validator to check your code and Firebug to see what css is applied to an element
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