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Thread: Web Design

  1. #1
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    Web Design

    I am a beginner.Can any body tell me which one is better to use, the Web design softwares or the manual method of web designing?If the manual method then What language and tools are better to use?

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    it is always a mix of both. i would suggest dreamweaver.

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    Regular Coder Mooseman's Avatar
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    Use HTML. It is far easier to learn for a beginner than any other language. After you learn some HTML, go to CSS (The styles for HTML). Then eventually you reach JavaScript. But let me put it this way, also: June 2nd 2010 (not kidding) was the first day I ever met HTML source code eye-to-eye. From using only tags like <br /> and <hr /> to creating full websites from a notepad editor with animations. 1 year of studying on nights and weekends. I now made this: http://www.Mooseman-Net.com

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    which tools better to use?? depends what you want to do.

    If you want to be serious about web design, this is a good route:

    HTML - understand all its tags. Understand semantic code and why it is important.
    CSS - understand its attributes and how some/different browsers can cause mahem and lots of time costs, for the designer. (so you can minimise the negative effect).
    PHP/PERL/COLD FUSION/PYTHON - the powerful server-side languages that make site management simpler and more cost-effective. Enables interaction with a database (contact forms, logins, and purchases etc), and enables content management via a browser, for the non-techy.

    AJAX - for more interactivity between user and website - used by web 2.0 apps like social networks etc. more useful than Javascript in my view because javascript only works client-side - ie in the users 'puter. AJAX connects with the server and so gives much more power.

    javascript has its uses but they are limited and its is very easy to show your hard work to be amateur.

    Once you have learned HTML and CSS, read up on progressive enhancement before diving into Javascript. It may help you decide at that (more knowledgable stage) on if you need it at all.

    Also, make sure that your navigation menu is built in HTML and does not rely on Javascript. It can be turned off and so will break your site for many potential users. And test any code you make in all browsers coz its necessary.

    I use notepad++ for writing code. I use it for
    HTML, CSS, Perl, php and for writing out my MySQL database queries. It has syntax highlighting which means you can see the individual parts of code more easily than if it is all in black lettering. Oh, and its free.

    I don't recommend any programming software. It's so easy to write rubbish code and because it 'does it for you' you can't tell.

    maybe more info than you wanted but hey, I try to help.

    bazz
    "The day you stop learning is the day you become obsolete"! - my late Dad.

    Why do some people say "I don't know for sure"? If they don't know for sure then, they don't know!
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    Regular Coder Mooseman's Avatar
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    I have never used any databases, and I don't have a paid server to do server-side operations. I forgot to mention Notepad++, but I use it all the time.

    @bazz Is not AJAX part of JavaScript? You can pull HTML files with in, not just PHP.

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    well, I tend to think of it as javascript with a server side connection. It too can be switched off by the user but if it is used for meaty stuff (the way social networks for example use it), then I think it is less likely to be switched off by the user.

    As for using it with HTML, I don't know. It's been about 6 years since I used an HTML page. ie one with the .html/.htm extension.
    bazz
    "The day you stop learning is the day you become obsolete"! - my late Dad.

    Why do some people say "I don't know for sure"? If they don't know for sure then, they don't know!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mooseman View Post
    Taking note of Bazz's advice on progressive enhancement might be useful. On your no-script site, this:

    Please upgrade your browser
    for the full Mooseman!!! 3.0 experience.
    is rather arrogant and incorrect, might I add. A good percentage of people who end up viewing your trimmed down, no JS site will have purposefully disabled JS so that they aren't deluged on a daily basis with the type of cruft which you have on your supposed primary page.

  • #8
    The fat guy next door VIPStephan's Avatar
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    I agree 100% with MattF’s comment. Don’t rely on JavaScript for basic functionality and don’t tell users what they should do in order to use the site to its full extent. Ideally, if progressive enhancement is applied properly, users don’t even notice that anything is missing.

  • #9
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    I guess that previous post was originally spam. I would hope that such posts are deleted when what remains after the link is removed, is worthless.

    To say dreamweaver is better for you takes no account of the original question and no account of fact.

    (guess who got out of wrong side of bed this morning).
    "The day you stop learning is the day you become obsolete"! - my late Dad.

    Why do some people say "I don't know for sure"? If they don't know for sure then, they don't know!
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    Dreamwaver with HTML and CSS is better for you as a beginner.

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    I suggest otherwise. If people want to learn how to code properly they need to know how to write it themselves from scratch. The various web design softwares (nothing against DW particularly), do much of the work for you (wrongly), and so do not really teach. They just make it 'easier' to get a working website. How it presents is another story.

    It represents a much better use of the learners time, to spend a few days learning the html (there's not much to it really*), and then spend time here and on other forums if needs be, to get the css done well. CSS is I find, the tricky annoying bit in a complex design.

    The combination of web-design software building code for you and then presenting it wrongly in their view mechanism, means some re-learning later down the road and the increased frustration caused by thinking 'it' was done only to find it needs to be fixed.

    *the basic of a web page is
    1. DOCTYPE - view this page to see an example.
    2. head section
    3. title
    4. meta data - again check out this page for examples
    5. stylesheet triggers - to tell the page which stylesheet to use
    6. body - the part that outputs to the browser.

    the body contains various elements like list, paragraphs, section headings, tables, and all these elements, together with examples are available on w3schools.com and of course, there is a ton of help here too.

    So I think the real answer to the OP is that if they want to make a false economy, use web design software. (false ecomony includes wasting time. it just depends how much you value your own time).

    If the aim is to get it right for the longer term and to become much quicker at doing it (which matters if you are to be paid and competitive), take a couple of days more to get the first site done, then code it yourself. The second and next site will be do-able more quickly because you know what YOU are doing and you don't and won;t want to use a web-design software.

    This age-old adage springs to mind. "There's no such thing as a free lunch".

    bazz (now awake).
    "The day you stop learning is the day you become obsolete"! - my late Dad.

    Why do some people say "I don't know for sure"? If they don't know for sure then, they don't know!
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  • #12
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    I'm just glad someone actually mentioned Coldfusion other than myself in a post!! lol
    Teed

  • #13
    Regular Coder Mooseman's Avatar
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    Arrow

    Yes, I know this is 2 months old. I hadn't seen this until now.
    Quote Originally Posted by MattF View Post
    is rather arrogant and incorrect, might I add. A good percentage of people who end up viewing your trimmed down, no JS site will have purposefully disabled JS so that they aren't deluged on a daily basis with the type of cruft which you have on your supposed primary page.
    Quote Originally Posted by VIPStephan View Post
    I agree 100% with MattF’s comment. Don’t rely on JavaScript for basic functionality and don’t tell users what they should do in order to use the site to its full extent. Ideally, if progressive enhancement is applied properly, users don’t even notice that anything is missing.
    The entire UI of the site depends on the lightboxes and the same. But really, Even most of Google and Facebook require JavaScript. I am working on another unrelated site which uses JS to change content, but without JS the p elemets just show as a list. Perhaps I will improve the noscript to be more seamless. But since only 1 (other than me) out of my 20,000 hits had JavaScript disabled, and since it was in IE 5.5, I'm not too worried. This is the only site out of my 5 that requires JS for basic functionality.

    And it's not cruft. It has valid HTML5, and performs well, even in IE.

  • #14
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    As you are a beginner I will suggest you to first learn HTML and CSS and then use Dreamweaver to design a website. I now it works and you will enjoy learning when you follow this step.

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    I think you don't need to learn much about HTML PHP. Just the basics.

    I'm a design student and I find coding sooo boring. For doing webdesign I have coders in city or in Ukraine who are doing the code work for me.

    You should check if you're more like the visual inspired designer. Or the coding matrix geek. And then focus oon one to become very good in that niche.


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