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  1. #1
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    Need opinions for site conversion

    I've had my website up for some time now (link at bottom). I would like suggestions for converting my site to a different layout. I need opinions for what other people think would be best.

    My site is currently in a frameset, as I have had it since I first built it. The frames are as below.
    Code:
    ____________
    |___________|
    |    |                 |
    |    |                 |
    |    |                 |
    |    |                 |
    |__|________ |
    The top and left frames are navigation frames. The lower-right one is for the content.

    I have been reading a lot about the disadvantages about using frames (printing, bookmarking, linking), and would probably like to convert my site to a single page layout. I mean, without using frames.

    One way I thought was to preserve the current layout, except without using frames. I mean, I could set up tables with the same layout for links and such as I have now. So, imagine the picture above as a single page, with the interior lines indicating tables instead of frames.

    Another thought was to just put all of the links vertically on the left side, like:
    Code:
    ____________
    |    |                |
    |    |                |
    |    |                |
    |    |                |
    |    |                |
    |    |                |
    |__|________|
    Finally, I could use an IFRAME to contain the content, so there would be no problems bookmarking the main site. However, I know that they are not well supported currently by many browsers. Although I could use it anyway and tell people that if the IFRAME doesn't work, they should use the sitemap. So there's a viable alternative.

    Anyway, what are your thoughts on this? What do you think of the ideas I have presented here, or do you have any other suggestions? Please post here any thoughts on this. Below is the link to my website as it is now, so you can see what I'm talking about.

    http://www.freewebs.com/hommworld/Homm/index.html

    P.S. Another question: how can I do preformatted text in my post?
    Last edited by Grant Palin; 02-03-2003 at 12:50 AM.

  • #2
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    it can be accomplished with tables, some opt. for a css based layout.

  • #3
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    Or just use iframes...They're well supported in modern browsers. I just read where this guy got fed up with NS7 so he went back to 4.7 heh heh. You don't want these kind of people on your site anyway.
    Zoobie or not Zoobie...That is the problem.
    <body onUnload="flush( ! )">

  • #4
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    Unhappy to bad your host......

    to bad your host don't support php tho it would've been way better instead of using iframes you could've just used one layout on the main page and icluded the rest of the sites content
    i have posted to a thread about this but ican repost it here for you. i've include a list of free host that do support php


    1: make your layout using normal html. step
    2: delete every thing in the area that you want your content to show up. and replace it with this code
    <?php if($page == "") { include "news.html"; } else { include "$page.html"; } ?>

    $page is the wild card page so if you want to include news your link would be ?page=news now if you change $page to something like $id the link would be ?id=news. you can change $page to what ever you would like but you must have a '$' at the beginning of the word or it will give you a parse error.

    3: all your links have to
    <a href="?page=YOUR FILE NAME HERE">LINK TEXT HERE</a>
    be or it wont work. with out the extension if you want to use the extentsion then remove the .html from the second include

    if you need a free host that supports php then try these links

    No ads (well that i know of)
    http://www.portland.co.uk/

    Ads (i think most of them do)

    http://www.fateback.com/

    http://www.spaceports.com/ Tested.

    http://www.t35.com

    http://www.coolfreepages.com/

    http://www.dk3.com/hosting/

    http://www.fairmount.nu/

    http://www.neopages.net/info.shtml

    http://www.i-networx.de/ German language

    http://www.hostultra.com/ Beware of porn-pop-ups. I tested it, but the pop-ups are bad.


    well i hope this helps c-ya
    -[Xphp]-
    print="TO Ask Will Unmask The Obvious-Jose 2002";

  • #5
    oat
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    Hi,
    your best bet for deciding on a new layout is to have a look around the web for sites you really like and try to do something similar. NOTE, i am not suggesting you copy sites, but you can draw inspiration from sites, perhaps look at 2 different sites and try to get some ideas from each, and rework things a bit in your own style. Also, something you see in print / magazines / tv can become the basis of a site design.
    have a look around places like:
    http://coolhomepages.com/
    http://www.thebestdesigns.com/
    for inspiration.

    Frames, well, in truth (despite the stuff you hear to the contrary) there is little wrong with using frames. The only real disadvantages are: 1)the bookmarking issue, and 2)the search engine issue. w.r.t bookmarkings, there may (or may not) be scripts around for this. Otherwise it just depends on how important you consider this facility to be for your users / whether it will be important for them..

    I wouldn't use IFRAMES though cos of the browser probs. I would also make sure u check your site in different browsers anyway if u are using frames, nn and ie have different tags, you might (or might not) have unexpected differences in diff browsers.

    Search engines are a little different, most dont read frames, so the content in your framesets (and all linked pages) wont be read, thus bad rankings.. However, since anybody with a v3 browser upward can view frames, u can use the <noframes> tag to write an s.e. optimised site that you can be pretty much guaranteed only the s.e's will see (and include links back to your genuine homepage on each page in case a user accesses your site on one of these pages). Frames have been called "the poor mans cloaking" . Whether the search engines penalise for using this method i am not sure, as i am awaiting my site to be included on google (i have used this method to overcome flash).

    hope this helps

    oat
    UK web design & development
    http://www.luminate.org.uk/

  • #6
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    How about Server Side Includes? It's enabled on my server. I've been thinkign about it for a while, but never got around to it. How is it performance wise? Would it be suitable for a large site ike mine?

  • #7
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    All right, I've converted my site to Server Side Includes, and all the pages work. But I'm getting a funny appearance. I mean, on some pages, the layout tables are different sizes and alignments. Check out my site and click on some of the links to see what I mean. Do I have to do something else to the link pages (the ones to the top and the left)? Do they need to be full HTML files, or do they need to be reduced down to their actual content? When I right-click my page and go to View Source, I see multiple HTML, Head, and BODY tags in the source code. Is that normal for SSI-d pages?

    Here's the include I'm using:
    <table border="1">
    <tr>
    <td rowspan="2" valign="2"><!--#include virtual="pagelinks1.shtml" --></td>
    <td><!--#include virtual="pagelinks2.shtml" --></td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
    <td>

    I've made sure to have the closing tags too.

    And yes, all the pages have been renamed to use the SHTML extension.


    http://www.freewebz.com/hommworld/HOMM/home.shtml

  • #8
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    gra...
    /me just a sees® this...
    valign="2"
    n' ummm ...valign= ....top/middle/bottom ...neeevvver saw it with just a number® before...:O(((
    thattt could be giving ya some probs...

  • #9
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    Right...my mistake (kicks self). The alignment is correct now. I'm noticing that on some of the pages, the top navigation table is taller than on most of the rest of the pages. Any ideas about that?

  • #10
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    gra...
    k.../me saw the 'size' of the just a header® part on the first page...
    n' thennn /me went to the 'links' page n' saw this in the source...
    Code:
    <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
    
    <html>
    <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;  charset=ISO-8859-1" />
    
    <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="styles.css" />
    
    <meta name="Heroes of Might and Magic 1" content="HOMM, Heroes of Might and Magic, A Strategic Quest, artifacts, heroes, troops, castles, towns, spells, skills, scenarios, campaigns, pictures, strategies, cheats, links, downloads, where to buy, 3DO, New World Computing, NWC" />
    <title>Links</title>
    </head>
    
    <body onload="top.document.title = document.title;">
    
    <table border="1">
    <tr>
    <td rowspan="2" valign="top"><!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
    
    <html>
    <head>
    <title></title>
    ...etc
    ummm howww come ya got 'two' <html><head><title> sets of tags??? n' just a starts® to lol...ummm /me thinks ya got morrre than two of 'em since shes been scrolling down your 'source' code...:O(((
    you shoullld only have just a one® set of 'em on each page...

    once ya clean up the 'coding' on the pages??? thennn /me thinks it should be just a ok® ...
    n' whispers...
    /me makes the index.html...n' thennn??? just a open® it in notepad® n' saveas the 'nextpagename' ya wanna make...
    n' just a replace® the info contained in the 'one' cell which relates to the page...

  • #11
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    I'm wondering about that too. That seems to be happening on every page, since I started using SSI. It must be that when I include the two navigation files, the page that includes them contains EVERYTHING in the naviagtion files, including HTML, Head, and TITLe tags. And I've got no idea why.

    Here's the source for the links page (from my editor):

    <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">

    <html>
    <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" />

    <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="styles.css" />

    <meta name="Heroes of Might and Magic 1" content="HOMM, Heroes of Might and Magic, A Strategic Quest, artifacts, heroes, troops, castles, towns, spells, skills, scenarios, campaigns, pictures, strategies, cheats, links, downloads, where to buy, 3DO, New World Computing, NWC" />
    <title>Links</title>
    </head>

    <body onload="top.document.title = document.title;">


    <table border="1">
    <tr>
    <td rowspan="2" valign="top"><!--#include virtual="pagelinks1.shtml" --></td>
    <td valign="top"><!--#include virtual="pagelinks2.shtml" --></td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
    <td>

    <p class="center"><img src="Links_title.gif" alt="Links" /></p>

    <p>Clicking on one of the links below will cause it to load it in a new window.</p>

    <img src="rainbow_bullet.gif" width="14" height="14" alt="Bullet" /><a href="http://www.3do.com" target="_new">Visit 3DO's website!</a><br />

    <img src="rainbow_bullet.gif" width="14" height="14" alt="Bullet" /><a href="http://www.3do.com/corporate/moregames/heroes.html" target="_new">Read about HOMM on 3DO's website</a><br />

    <img src="rainbow_bullet.gif" width="14" height="14" alt="Bullet" /><a href="http://www.gamesdomain.com/gdreview/zones/reviews/pc/may96/homam.html" target="_new">Good review by Gamesdomain</a><br />

    <img src="rainbow_bullet.gif" width="14" height="14" alt="Bullet" /><a href="http://www.astralwizard.com/heroes1/heroes1.htm" target="_new">Astral Wizard's Website</a> - -Pretty good website with general information, tips, maps, and some links.<br />

    <img src="rainbow_bullet.gif" width="14" height="14" alt="Bullet" /><a href="http://www.the-spoiler.com/STRATEGY/New.world.computing/heroes.of.the.might.and.magic.1.html" target="_new">Yujun's Strategy Guide</a><br />

    <img src="rainbow_bullet.gif" width="14" height="14" alt="Bullet" /><a href="http://members.tripod.com/quebecdragon/homm1.html" target="_new">The Quebec Dragon.</a> - -Site has some links and a long list of maps that can be downloaded to play in HOMM1.


    </td>
    </tr>
    </table>

    </body>
    </html>

    The include must be doing it. Do I need to remove the HTML, HEAD, TITLE, and BODY tags from the navigation pages? Maybe that would fix it.

  • #12
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    I removed the HTML, HEAD, TITLE, and BODY tags from the two navigation documents. The resulting site works fine, and doesn;t have the extra opening tags from before. But I'm still getting some extra vertical space in the top table on some of the pages. I don't know why that was happening. Any ideas?

    Should I leave the navigation documents as they are, or put the important starter tags back? It didn't seem to make any difference...

  • #13
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    gra...
    first of all /me just a plogizes® to ya for mentioning the 'double' tags...:O((( nowww /me sees ya just a lready® knew 'bout 'em...lol...

    n' since /me doesnt/hasnt used ssi??? /me went onto good ol' google n' found this...
    http://www.bignosebird.com/ssi.shtml

    seems when youre just a going®...
    <!--#include file="mailform1.txt" -->


    thattt 'txt' file is your 'page' set up MINUS the html/head/title/body etc tags...:O)))

    sooo when you tell it to look say for your ....<!--#include virtual="pagelinks1.shtml" -->

    /me is just a wondering® ifin' thattt should be...
    <!--#include virtual="pagelinks1.txt" -->.

    where the 'txt' file would be from <table> yadda yadda </table> on it...

    wanna give thattt just a try®???
    n' as for the xtra spacing??? try to have your tds as...
    <td valign="top"> :O)))

    just a goodluck® n' hoping thattt helps...:O)))

  • #14
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    I did that. There doesn't seem to be any apparent change. And I've still got that extra vertical space on some of the pages. That's so odd.


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