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  1. #1
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    Banning TV, Radios, and the Internet in the US

    http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,64297,00.html

    Yeah it is dumb; was it here where people discussed Orrin Hatch's plan to make a virus that would destroy the computers of music sharers?

    Although, I doubt this will pass; if it did, in the US it would mean that the following would be outlawed if by the bill if the goverment felt like it:
    ALL Storage Devices: Flash drives, Hard Drives, CD-R(W), DVD[+-]R(W), zip, Jaz, etc
    ALL Computer networks, including the Internet, wireless and LANS
    All cellphones with the ability to record visual or audio information
    All TVs/VCRs/TiVo
    Any radio with a cassette recorder built into it.

    Anyways, for the people who live in the US, you can use this to protest it: http://action.eff.org/action/index.asp?step=2&item=2918

    This is the completely wrong approch to stop copyright problems.
    OracleGuy

  • #2
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    I signed it -- I agree with you 100%. It's always this way, though -- people fighting technology which they don't understand. Fear drives the weak minded.
    // Art is what you can get away with. <-- Andy Warhol
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  • #3
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    Good lord. I think I'm going to be sick. I'm on the band wagon too. Let's just hope those in power have enough sense to see the error of the proposal. Though past history points to nay.

    Basscyst
    Helping to build a bigger box. - Adam Matthews

  • #4
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    These backwoods, fundamentalist, corporate whores will not own this country forever. I think my generation will be the ones to either completely sell us all out, or finally say, "NO" for the last time. I hope for the latter.

  • #5
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    OracleGuy

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    Oh yeah, what makes you think that they can even do that? They can't even control the p2p networking, how are they going to go through billions of computers and remove such files?
    -Sk8er9547

  • #7
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    Wow I hope nothing like that ever happens. I signed it alright. This is the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard. If this did pass It would be impossible for so many of those things to simply be banned, but would cause chaos everywhere. This whole nonsense with copyright protection on music is ridiculous its pure greed of money by large companies. This whole nonsense had gone too far when the RIAA started suing people for sharing music, but now to ban devices. This is like some Ray Bradbury book banning and burning all books.
    Kris Hubby
    kwhubby site

  • #8
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    Well, I'm a Canadian, and not an American -- although, I'd basically be impacted in almost the same right.

    But just reading up on these articles, it almost seems like it's a tactic. Sen. Orrin Hatch is serious about acquiring a solution to the copyright music/movies issue. It's obviously been an issue for a long time, however, no proposed solution has 'worked'.

    It looks like Sen. Orrin Hatch is proposing an extreme, and wants to get everyone's attention, and now he's saying he's open to negotiation. It's like going to Mexico and bargaining for curios -- vendors will start has high as possible and expect to be bargained down.

    He doesn't know what the solution is, but he wants to get everyone talking about it and all the techies in on it as well (as there are many jobs on the line all of a sudden..), and figure out a solution.

    Does anyone here have a good solution? I have never bothered to take a good look at the P2P architecture to offer much, but I almost wonder if there's a way (like detecting spam..) to have a built-in mechanism for detecting copyrighted files. When these files are found, they can be flagged and sent to the FBI or something.. it's tricky still, because how do you know if someone is in the USA or not? How long will that file reside on the user's computer before some authority comes knocking on the door? How easily can the system be tricked (using a hack of some sort..) so as to circumvent any checking at all? etc...

    It's one thing to sign a petition against something, but you're only turning down a solution to a problem. If you can't offer an alternate solution, maybe you're not doing enough?

    Just some thoughts.. I know you've 'elected' people to do this sort of thing for you, but if you're living in a democracy, sometimes you have to give a little more input otherwise you'll end up with something you don't want.

    Sadiq.

  • #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by sad69
    Does anyone here have a good solution? I have never bothered to take a good look at the P2P architecture to offer much, but I almost wonder if there's a way (like detecting spam..) to have a built-in mechanism for detecting copyrighted files. When these files are found, they can be flagged and sent to the FBI or something..


    ahahahahahasflsdakjhf... whatever you say, Big Brother!

    regarding the rest of your comments, i think, for starters, you ought to get up to speed on some of the legislation that has been passed in the States over the past decade, but ESPECIALLY in the past 3 years (i.e. post 9/11) before you assume that crazy Orwellian legislation is 'just a tactic'.

    That said, I think you might be onto something with that point, but as far as proposed solutions... isn't the article linked at the onset of this thread pointing out that there already was one established years ago? Even without that, the reason behind it still stands: a device made to copy or hold copies of something is not inherently illegal, therefore it would be absurd to make such devices illegal because they COULD be used illegally.

    The real solutions to these problems are not as confusing as people would have you believe. Record companies, Hollywood, etc. all want you to think that they're being taken for all their hard earned cash, and that's just a crock of bull****. People are buying less CDs because record companies have homogenized everything AND jacked up the prices so that you're left $20 for 10 tracks, 8 of which are mediocre filler and the rest are the singles that made you want the CD to begin with. I can't speak as much to the reasons for DVD piracy, though I'd be willing to bet that reasons for copying aside, the situation around it is similar: anybody who regularly purchases DVDs AND copies them is most likely just testing things out. Most people who just copy and don't buy probably wouldn't buy anyway, so it's a moot point. Well, it SHOULD be, but yeah...

  • #10
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    Well, it's like the commedian said: "They shouldn't prohibite guns, they should make the bullets rediculously expensive!"

    In Belgium (like in probably many other countrys), they added yet another tax on blank casettes, cd's, dvd's, copypaper, cd-writer, dvd-writers, VCR's, cassetdecks, copy-machines, ... (extra revenu is supposed to be distributed as royaltys)

    Didn't create a mindshift, didn' make a difference to the artists and is probably illegal (would be like writing out a few speedtickets when you buy a car, just because you'll probably drive it to fast)
    Maybe this whole farse will result in: "as a compromise, we'll create a new tax that will then compensate the artist for there lost income".
    Posting guidelines I use to see if I will spend time to answer your question : http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

  • #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ]|V|[agnus


    ahahahahahasflsdakjhf... whatever you say, Big Brother!

    regarding the rest of your comments, i think, for starters, you ought to get up to speed on some of the legislation that has been passed in the States over the past decade, but ESPECIALLY in the past 3 years (i.e. post 9/11) before you assume that crazy Orwellian legislation is 'just a tactic'.
    You probably should cut him some slack since he doesn't have a real reason to be, as he isn't an American but yeah you are right.

    The problem is that they, and they being mostly the RIAA (And Hatch is one of their biggest supporters), refuse to embrace progress. You got old guys with their old obsolete business model, its as simple as that. Just think of the money they could be making with their own iTunes type service. But like magnus said earlier, once most of the elected officials are people that grew up with this stuff, they'll be a lot more understanding and less blind to the problem and the fact there is no solution.

    Does anyone here have a good solution? I have never bothered to take a good look at the P2P architecture to offer much, but I almost wonder if there's a way (like detecting spam..) to have a built-in mechanism for detecting copyrighted files. When these files are found, they can be flagged and sent to the FBI or something.. it's tricky still, because how do you know if someone is in the USA or not? How long will that file reside on the user's computer before some authority comes knocking on the door? How easily can the system be tricked (using a hack of some sort..) so as to circumvent any checking at all? etc...
    The problem is that it would do no good, like I've said before, for every one programmer working to protect something, there are 10 working on getting around it. It's just the way the world works; besides I'd rather the FBI tracking down more important people like murders than some 12 year old girl that downloaded a Britney Spears song.

    On a similar subject: http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/04/07/25...id=141&tid=123
    OracleGuy

  • #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ]|V|[agnus
    ahahahahahasflsdakjhf... whatever you say, Big Brother!
    Lol, I agree I'm not up to speed, and I'm not a fan of politics either, unless it starts to affect me (I know it's bad, but it's the truth to an extent... and it wouldn't surprise me if there were more people like that).

    Quote Originally Posted by ]|V|[agnus
    That said, I think you might be onto something with that point, but as far as proposed solutions... isn't the article linked at the onset of this thread pointing out that there already was one established years ago? Even without that, the reason behind it still stands: a device made to copy or hold copies of something is not inherently illegal, therefore it would be absurd to make such devices illegal because they COULD be used illegally.
    I understand that leglislation and agree with it. And I think the reason this legislation keeps coming up is because there are different parts to this problem:
    -First you have the original CD or DVD
    -Somebody has to copy this data somewhere: it gets copied to the harddrive or to another CD/DVD
    -Now on to the aspect sharing this data with the world. P2P, FTP, etc..

    So who's to blame? The person(s) who bought the CD? The person(s) who copied that data somewhere? The person(s) that uploaded that data to the internet? The person(s) sharing that data online? The person(s) that downloads that data?

    It looks like this proposal is trying to get to the root of the problem, once you've got that CD/DVD, its data isn't going anywhere -- well, at least not legally. It's going to stay on that disc.

    Perhaps laws should be made further down this line?

    Quote Originally Posted by ]|V|[agnus
    Most people who just copy and don't buy probably wouldn't buy anyway, so it's a moot point.
    That's a very good point! That could be a point to be brought up someplace? I've never bought a CD in my life. I've received some as gifts, but never bought my own (and I'm 22 years old!). As far back as I can remember, I was into tracking music (s3m and it files, and midi files before that -- I like my Techo/Rave/House/....). Even today, I stream music on online radio stations through Winamp. Am I infringing some copyrights?

    I'm not saying what should or shouldn't be the law -- it's not my country. I just feel that Americans should be thinking and contributing possible solutions, and that the solution should be accepted by all of you. If you're not involved (and signing the petition is definately a start.. or not signing it as well, I suppose..) then you'd better be satisfied with whatever you get.

    Just sparking some thoughts.. don't hate me!
    Sadiq.

  • #13
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    Heh! No hate, brother, no hate by any means.

  • #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by raf
    Well, it's like the commedian said: "They shouldn't prohibite guns, they should make the bullets rediculously expensive!"
    That would be Chris Rock... all hail pop culture.

    I think, like many people have said, it's clear that you cannot halt the advancement of technology -- history has and will prove that. Those inexperienced users who are afraid of what they don't know will always try to halt advancements, but they'll always be one step behind. This falls into many categories of current issues.

    That being said, I take the Libertarian stance:
    "Just because you think it's wrong, does not make it illegal"

    Our country always confuses what it takes as morally/socially right or wrong as legal or illegal. Fundamentally unsound, un-American, and contradicatory to the documents that built our tyranny.

    Just because someone doesn't think it's right, doesn't make it an illegal action -- though the area of 'losing property'/theft is a gray area -- I think we're pushing things a bit here... just maybe.

    In my overly negative opinion, I agree with ]|V|[agnus -- someday, this will be my generations country... and all those fears will transfer to new ones and so on and so on -- I'll be embracing piracy and blaming my kids for all the @#$ they play - "you call that music?! Just all sounds the same to me!" Either way, the tired old ways of a few dried up politicians won't hold me back. I remember an old Palestinian newspaper that was shut down wrote:
    "Please, Americans -- don't think that the culture of our country and the choices of our people are anyway reflective of the poor decisions of a few outdated politicians and leaders in our offices. We will hold you with the same esteem."
    // Art is what you can get away with. <-- Andy Warhol
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  • #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by sad69
    It looks like this proposal is trying to get to the root of the problem, once you've got that CD/DVD, its data isn't going anywhere -- well, at least not legally. It's going to stay on that disc.
    Not necessarily, I can buy and movie and before the DMCA, it was clear; I could copy that disc to my hearts content for backup purposes. I know someone at work that copied his kid's dvds so that when his 4 year old broke one, they didnt need to go out and buy a new copy. That's legal to do, its called fair use. Now with the DMCA (Digital Millennium Copyright Act) they are trying to trample on fair use so it becomes a grey area.
    OracleGuy


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