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  1. #1
    me'
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    Stopping spam and Bill Gates - anyone believe his claim?

    Well, I don't doubt he's a very powerful man, but this looks over the top. Thoughts?
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  • #2
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    i doubt it will work, as it envolves mr gates and where there is a will theres a way.remember:

    "its not a bug, its a feature"


    i can see it now, gates, charges spammers to be able to get through the system without doing any calculations or whatever.

    scroots
    Spammers next time you spam me consider the implications:
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    (2)It is worthless to you, when i have finished

  • #3
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    how about we rename the tread to:
    stopping bill gates - anyone game?

    i can see it coming
    MS spam filter 1.0: 500$
    MS spam filter 1.1: 500$
    MS spam filter 1.1.1 500$
    MS spam filter 1.1.1.1 500$
    MS spam filter 1.1.1.1.1 500$

    by the last release, there'll be a new windows out with which MS spam filter will not be compatible and you'll have to buy MS spam filter 2.0, then 2.1 and then...
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  • #4
    WA
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    I don't see why Microsoft is any more qualified to make that claim than the next person or company, and seeing that no one else is claiming that, I have serious doubts. Artificial intelligence plays a critical role in the successful fight against spam, and unless Microsoft has some super AI bot in the works, I don't see how it can be effective.

    The problem with fighting spam is that a lot of it is sent from zombie machines, making their return paths legitimate. This means the spam blocker has to intelligently decipher the actual email contents and determine whether it's spam. It's one thing looking for keywords like "viagra", but do you really trust your legitimate emails not getting blocked as a result?
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  • #5
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    The solution Gates seems to think of, that digital 'stamp', seems to me a lot like the idea discussed in this thread: <http://codingforums.com/showthread.p...threadid=31312>

    That is the single thing I can think of that will prevent spam - except if you implement some kind of hard-to-hijack general authorisation. As for Microsoft being more capable of actually pulling this stunt off than any other entiry I've seen, I think that would be a definite yes. They can do it in the same way they took over the browser market, but this time it will be for the general good. (Unless they go screw it up and make it a Microsoft-or-not-at-all solution.)
    Last edited by liorean; 01-25-2004 at 11:28 PM.
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  • #6
    WA
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    AOL moves to test out better spam blocking: http://news.com.com/2100-1032_3-5145...?tag=nefd_lede Looks similar to the digital stamp concept if I understood it correctly.

    I don't see how Microsoft is better positioned to fight spam. This isn't just an OutLook express issue, for example, but something that has to be fought at the server end, from the point of ISPs, within Open Source software such as Linux etc. Microsoft can only affect the Windows part of the equation.
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  • #7
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    The reason Microsoft can do it is not really that they have a large userbase, even though that helps. It is more of a question of balancing funds. Microsoft are probably willing to throw away far more money on this than anyone else, especially if they can see a way to either give their other products a hike from it, or to gain money from it themselves. And their meassures would be taken mostly serverside, if I understand them correctly. They are one of few players that are not susceptible to the counter weapons spammers use, especially not if they join forces with others instead of trying to pull their own proprietary system.
    Last edited by liorean; 01-26-2004 at 12:16 AM.
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  • #8
    raf
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    Originally posted by WA
    ... Artificial intelligence plays a critical role in the successful fight against spam, and unless Microsoft has some super AI bot in the works, I don't see how it can be effective.
    AI will never work since you can only make positive matches (like if the message contains certain words) to label them as spam. So if a spammer only sends nonsens they will get through. If they want to send an actual message that should contain 'forbidden words' then they will change these keywords like *PRO*MOTION* or whatever or send it as an HTML message and use javascript to compose the massage when opened.

    So there is no hope on neural nets to filter them out.

    The only use for AI would be pattern recognition (and then more specificaly the patternchanges) to counter people manipulating legitimate accounts or mailservers. If one account or one mailserver suddenly and drastically would change it's mailpattern, that it is probably hacked and used for spamming. (these detectionsystems are currently used by mobile phone companys and creditcard companys)


    But i can also see MS plan : promoting the .Net password and offering a service like 'get your *free* .Net password and configure your mailserver/acount to only accept mails from other certifyed .Net passwordholders'
    Wount be long before you need a .Net password to send a mail or to acces whatever application if 'Good Old Billy Boy gets the chance to protect us against the big bad web-hooligans'

    But he is a clever guy. When he started nagging abouth him getting spammed (with offers to earn big bugs by filling out forms while he was clearly much to rich to solicid that sort of mail etc) a few monthes back, i thought: who is he kidding!
    but it is all nicely planned and he wraps some storys (you cant call it lies, just because of the beauty of them) around it to make it look as a personal battle to solve our common problems etc.

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    i bet he will profit from it in the future one way or another.

    looks like MS changed tack to help stop spam. I blame them for most of my spam, as a machine was found a year ago putting in 4 requests a second to see which emails where valid, the machine had been running for two years constantly.

    so thats 126230400 email addresses tested a year so over two years thats 252460800, if only a quarter of them are valid thats still 63115200 email addresses to spam. Someone offered microsoft a free fix and they declined.


    scroots
    Spammers next time you spam me consider the implications:
    (1) that you will be persuaded by me(in a legitimate mannor)
    (2)It is worthless to you, when i have finished

  • #10
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    Originally posted by raf
    AI will never work since you can only make positive matches (like if the message contains certain words) to label them as spam. So if a spammer only sends nonsens they will get through. If they want to send an actual message that should contain 'forbidden words' then they will change these keywords like *PRO*MOTION* or whatever or send it as an HTML message and use javascript to compose the massage when opened.

    So there is no hope on neural nets to filter them out.

    The only use for AI would be pattern recognition (and then more specificaly the patternchanges) to counter people manipulating legitimate accounts or mailservers. If one account or one mailserver suddenly and drastically would change it's mailpattern, that it is probably hacked and used for spamming. (these detectionsystems are currently used by mobile phone companys and creditcard companys)
    Surely (by definition), a sophisticated enough AI system, could tell spam and non-spam apart as well as a human?

    However, there are two problems with that - firstly, that such AI sophistication is currently not achievable, not is it likely to be in the near future (although never say never), and secondly, what is spam to one man is not to another.
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  • #11
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    You guys are funny.

    And you underestimate the dependency dicovery has on money.

    Of course Bill Gates can work towards stopping spam.

    Frankly, I have been able to work for FREE and have stopped all spam coming to my e-mail address permanently.

    Stopping spam is no miracle. It's easy with no money, let alone having an entire system to stop.

    You guys mentioned AI - that's all great but entirely unnecessary. That's like trying to create AI that can never lose at tic-tac-toe.

    It's extremely unnecessary. Stopping spam is mystery, it's easily done 0.o

  • #12
    raf
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    Originally posted by MysteryMan
    You guys are funny.
    Yes i know.

    But i don't get your point like in any of the other post you've made in these forums. I don't even understand what you are trying to explain here and I don't quite see what your post contributes to this thread.

    There have also been plenty of threads about ways to stop spam so your not they only one that solved his own little spam problem

    maybe post your emailadress here and we'll see how good your sollution is.

  • #13
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    Originally posted by MysteryMan
    Stopping spam is no miracle. It's easy with no money, let alone having an entire system to stop.
    He's right actually, and here's 3 ways that anyone can do it:

    1) Stop using email altogether

    2) Don't check your email, only send from the account

    3) Set up mail forwarders so that any mail (spam or otherwise) is directed somewhere else and hence never arrives in your inbox.


    Thanks for your ever-so-helpful, constructive input MysteryMan! (as always)


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    Originally posted by M@rco
    He's right actually, and here's 3 ways that anyone can do it:

    1) Stop using email altogether

    2) Don't check your email, only send from the account

    3) Set up mail forwarders so that any mail (spam or otherwise) is directed somewhere else and hence never arrives in your inbox.


    Thanks for your ever-so-helpful, constructive input MysteryMan! (as always)


    Yeah, or you could just actually post something worthwhile other than this.

    Like I said - if you have sense, stopping spam is way too simple.

    My statistics show my main e-mail box recieved 11,445 emails in the year 2003 and I recieved 143.

    Out ofthe 143 I recieved, 143 were emails I wanted. 100% success with no failure

    If I can do this with NO money, someone with unlimited funds - not too mention international government support, can do it.

    You act like it's HIV or CANCER or something.

  • #15
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    Originally posted by MysteryMan
    You act like it's HIV or CANCER or something.
    Funnily enough, I discovered cures for both last week. It's easy with no money, I was working for FREE. If I can do it, the HIV and CANCER charities with their unlimited funds can do it. I don't see what's so difficult.

    Last edited by M@rco; 02-18-2004 at 06:36 PM.
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