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View Poll Results: Do you think IE should step up with security because it's the default for Windows???

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  • Absolutely.

    7 53.85%
  • No.

    1 7.69%
  • Could go either way.

    1 7.69%
  • No opinion. Choose if, you use a different browser or IE updates don't make you jump for joy.

    4 30.77%
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  1. #1
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    Question Why not an Internet Explorer 7???

    Hey everybody. I'm new to the forums right now and I've been reading some of the stuff in this section. I'm just wondering when Microsoft will create a IE 7 with popup blocking. I know of even Netscape that does this in their 7 version. It seems that they're lagging behind a bit.

    It would be cool if you could have a browser that had every option thinkable. Such as which types of scripts, cookies, and maybe even some server side coding to accept or not accept. Don't know if preventing server side things are possible, but it probably can be done.

    I've heard about that new "Lockhorn" or "Blackcomb" Windows coming out, so maybe they'll do it then? Not sure. I surf the web with IE 6 SP1 and I have everything disabled in the Internet zone. All cookies are blocked, unless I add the address to my accept list. This also is the same with the "Trusted Sites" option, but I still have a lot of security in that zone.

    My system is very clean and I'd like all users systems to be like mine. If the Internet in general figured out that using a type of technology to promote ads (Javascript popups for one thing), maybe it would lead them to stop because the turnout rate is low. On my personal site, I keep content very low. My custom DTD for my site is only 14 lines!

    Code:
    <!ELEMENT html (head, body)><!ATTLIST html>
     <!ELEMENT head (title, style)><!ATTLIST head>
      <!ELEMENT title (#PCDATA)><!ATTLIST title>
      <!ELEMENT style (#PCDATA)>
     <!ELEMENT body (p)*><!ATTLIST body>
      <!ELEMENT p (#PCDATA | a | img | br)*>
       <!ELEMENT a (#PCDATA)>
       <!ELEMENT img EMPTY>
       <!ELEMENT br EMPTY><!ATTLIST br>
    
    <!ATTLIST style   type CDATA #REQUIRED>
    <!ATTLIST p       id   ID    #IMPLIED    class CDATA #IMPLIED>
    <!ATTLIST a       href CDATA #REQUIRED>
    <!ATTLIST img     src  CDATA #REQUIRED   alt   CDATA #REQUIRED>
    I know this type of web design isn't possible for all sites, but shouldn't they work towards this? I'm probably asking for an Internet utopia that probably isn't possible, but I bet that if Microsoft made an IE 7 with a lot of features that computer illiterate people understand, we'd be on our way. Just my thoughts on the Internet in general.

  • #2
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    Security should be constantly reviewed and enhanced whatever the browser. I'd put my money on IE not being branded as "7" it'll be XQ or TX or GZX or any other collection of letters containing an X. It'll probably integrate with messenger, hotmail, .net and other services so will take a while to emerge, probably as you say, when the next os comes out.

    They've no competition atm with Netscape being something only old school net users remember ever using, most people have never heard of it.
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  • #3
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    I have never used Netscape myself, but am willing to try it. I'd like to see exactly how popups are stopped. Not sure how that popup blocking feature works. It would be a lot better than having scripting totally disabled like on my IE.

    It'll be kinda cool if they call the new IE 7 "Internet XPlorer" because it has XP in it and sounds the same. I bet that's what they're planning, but I could be wrong

  • #4
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    TheAbyss - Ns7's popup feature is the same as the one in Mozilla (since NS7 is built on Mozilla). What they do, is to block any calls to the function open unless it's triggered by a user event. It can also disable various other javascript features.



    I would recommend you to use one of the stable Mozilla versions instead of Ns7.

    (iow the moz versions that aren't nightlies, and doesn't end with one of 'a', 'b', 'rc#')
    Last edited by liorean; 05-08-2003 at 07:06 PM.
    liorean <[lio@wg]>
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  • #5
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    MS hasn't leaked a word about any new versions of IE, one wonders if they are working on it at all.

    Don't waste your time using anything branded Netscape these days. The current "Netscape" browsers are just older versions of the Mozilla browser repackaged with a lot of excess programs and other nonsense. Get and use the current Mozilla browser instead.
    Check out the Forum Search. It's the short path to getting great results from this forum.

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    I recommend Phoenix - it's the mozilla gecko rendering engine in a lightwieght interface - I use it all the time - and it has the same JS-preferences as mozilla.

    I imagine that whatever IE comes out with next will be branded along the lines of MSN Explorer - still deeply embedded in the OS, and possible even more so, but visually a strong "browser brand". It will also be highly skinable to appeal to extremes - from business intranet users who want a plain conservative look, to nutters who want it to look like the cover of a Cradle of Filth record. And they will add popup blockers; blatantly.

    It will also be very nearly almost incredibly standards compliant, but the factor by which it deviates will be so arrogantly ironic that the internet itself will explode from the frustration of it all.
    Last edited by brothercake; 05-08-2003 at 10:21 PM.
    "Why bother with accessibility? ... Because deep down you know that the web is attractive to people who aren't exactly like you." - Joe Clark

  • #7
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    Well, Phoenix (or Mozilla Firebird as it's new name is) is a good browser - but it doesn't have some of the features that I really like about Mozilla, like DOM Inspector, Venkman , some of the XPIs I use etc. I'll convert when Mozilla Application Suite converts, not before. I can take Composer and ChatZilla not being present, but the rest of the suite iare features I use more or less regularly.

    On a second note, have you seen this, Brothercake? It's Moz1.4 based instead of 1.02 as Camino is, and is reportedly faster than Camino and Safari both.


    As for Ie7, there are rumors. I know the tasman team are working on ie6 for mac, too. As for features in ie7w, I'd say DOM will be far better supported, probably DOM3 for at least some things. They won't drop doctype switching and won't do anything radical to their rendering engines, but they will likely amend the XHTML issues, add CSS support for most of CSS2 ignoring a few irritating details, and implement CSS3 parts that aren't ready for prime time yet.

    As for popup blocking, they may add it, but I doubt it.



    I think we'll have to wait for ie7w for some time yet, though - ECMA262-4 is nearing an end, and I would think Microsoft wants to bring a killer JScript .NET enabled engine that beats Spidermonkey. (They've been after moz in that sector too long, and they have been working on their own implementation alongside with the development of the spec. So has moz, but their implementation isn't fully backwards compatible yet and thus can't be used in the browser yet.)
    Last edited by liorean; 05-08-2003 at 11:07 PM.
    liorean <[lio@wg]>
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  • #8
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    Thanks for all of the input. I'm downloading the Phoenix browser right now. It seems like it's a Mozilla Lite version I'll check out how this browser runs and post my results here. Thanks again!

  • #9
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    Very nice! I'm liking this browser right now. What I like the best is the "Block images from this server" context menu. That means I can block ad servers from displaying ad images. I just love the options for cookies that you can make them "session only". Totally awesome!

    What's really great is the automatic import of IE favorites. I set up my "Bookmarks Toolbar" just like IE's "Links Bar". Very awesome! My favorite sites are just one click away. It definetley seems like this is the browser I've been having in mind, but maybe they could reject certain HTTP headers sent? A little tip for the dev team

    Overall, 9.8 out of 10! I can give it a 10 out of 10, but any product is improvable

    Thanks for the browser tip brothercake!

  • #10
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    No worries mate What really sold me was that all your bookmarks can be on the bookmarks toolbar - you can put folders on the toolbar, with folders inside those, etc ...

    liorean made a good point about moz - it has a lot of features which are very useful for developing. But I use Phoenix for every day surfing.
    "Why bother with accessibility? ... Because deep down you know that the web is attractive to people who aren't exactly like you." - Joe Clark

  • #11
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    NS just called their's 7 because it sounds like it's ahead of Microsoft...That's why they skipped 5.
    Zoobie or not Zoobie...That is the problem.
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  • #12
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    Originally posted by zoobie
    NS just called their's 7 because it sounds like it's ahead of Microsoft...That's why they skipped 5.
    But they are soooo far ahead... it really isn't even funny. IE needs some serious development.

  • #13
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    IE needs some serious development.
    That's so true. It seems like IE updates don't even exist now. IE 6 seems so old it's like using tables for webpage layout. Very old indeed. The problem with Microsoft is that they're not open-source, but that would be an oxymoron wouldn't it?

    Netscape gained a lot of ground a while a go when I read an online article that they released the source code. I think it was sometime around the AOL merger, but I'm not sure. IE use will never decrease that much though, because Microsoft forces illiterate users to think that they can only run their browser. Plus, with being installed with Windows, it gives them the advantage of not having users need to know how to install it.

    I hope there's a day where every user uses something like Phoenix. That would certainly be the browser utopia I'm looking for

    [added:]
    Very cool features I've found! It's for the Phoenix browser: http://texturizer.net/firebird/extensions.html

    Some cool things to add to the browser. You can right click on an image and make it disappear! Pretty cool when you want the ad companies to be quiet
    Last edited by theabyss; 05-10-2003 at 03:27 AM.

  • #14
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    Originally posted by zoobie
    NS just called their's 7 because it sounds like it's ahead of Microsoft...That's why they skipped 5.
    Actually, no. When mozilla.org first launched with code Netscape open-sourced, the plan was to eventually deliver a product Netscape could call Netscape 5. Simultaneously, a few good men (and probably fewer good women) started working on a next-generation layout engine, Seamonkey.

    I might have my facts jumbled on whether it was a layout engine and whether it was called Seamonkey. But in any case, the mozilla.org team decided to completely throw away the codebase Netscape donated, and go with the Seamonkey/Gecko platform. Netscape Communicator 5 was thus never released, and the next-generation browser platform, Netscape 6, was based on Mozilla 0.6, running Gecko.

    It was because of the generational change in the codebase that they numbered it 6.

    Now, Netscape 6 was a public-relations disaster. It wasn't ready for prime-time. Netscape 6.1 was based on Mozilla 0.9.2, and Netscape 6.2 on Mozilla 0.9.4, but even so, it just wasn't good enough.

    Mozilla 1.0 was the source code which Netscape 7.0 was based on. It was and is an industrial-strength product.

    Incidentally, mozilla.org is planning another "stable release" within the next month or so, called Mozilla 1.4; apparently, this is to replace Mozilla 1.0 as the branch for stable, less-experimental code improvements. This may (I don't have insider information, and I don't work for anyone who does) mean a Netscape 7.x release based on Mozilla 1.4. (I believe Netscape 7.0.1 is based on Mozilla 1.0.2.)

    Furthermore, there are plans to make Mozilla Firebird (formerly called Phoenix) the basis of a browser-only Mozilla. Similarly, there are plans in the works to make the Mail/News component of Mozilla standalone, and possibly (but not set in stone yet) the Composer application as well.

    http://www.mozilla.org/roadmap.html
    http://www.mozilla.org/roadmap/branding.html
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  • #15
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    IE being the most used brower on the web, if they had pop up blocking, advertising companies would find other ways of advertising.
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