Hello and welcome to our community! Is this your first visit?
Register
Enjoy an ad free experience by logging in. Not a member yet? Register.
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 20

Thread: Cable vs DSL

  1. #1
    Senior Coder
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    1,628
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Cable vs DSL

    First of all, this post pertains to my knowledge of cable modems and digital subscriber lines in my location, naturally other contributions to the thread from different locations are welcome.

    Cable modems are a little cheaper than DSL, and theres also better access for it, but can slow down if there is too much activity in one "neighborhood". (this also prevents alot of cable users to run a type of "web server")

    DSL (yay) runs off the same phone line that you use to call people with (copper wires), but doesnt use up your phone line, i think DSL is a little slower, more expensive and harder to get access to depending on location, there are also phone line restrictions like load coils or if the line is spliced.
    also there are different types of DSL's????

    im not clear on cable and dsl upload/download speeds.

    any comments on price/installation etc.?

    If you guys provide some links thats cool, but i would really like personal feedback/opinions, what does each of you have? who has tried both?

    Moderator: General web building

    Get out from under them, resist and multiply.
    Get out from under precipice and see the sky.

  • #2
    Regular Coder Skyzyx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Silicon Valley, CA
    Posts
    980
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Well, DSL and Cable typically run neck and neck. In some cities, one is slightly faster than the other, but more or less, it's all the same. In my area, I have Cable at home where I download around 80-90Kbps. At work, 3 blocks away, we have DSL that downloads at 160 Kbps. It depends on the city though. In San Francisco (Daly City), Cable is typically faster than DSL speeds.

    As far as DSL goes, the differences depend on you. IDSL is based on ISDN technology. Yuck! ADSL has faster download speeds than upload speeds. SDSL has equal download/upload speeds. If you're running a web server, I'd go with SDSL. Otherwise, ADSL is just fine.

    Creator of SimplePie and Tarzan AWS, co-founder of WarpShare, co-built the Y! Messenger website, usability-focused, and an INFJ personality.

  • #3
    raf
    raf is offline
    Master Coder
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    6,589
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    im not clear on cable and dsl upload/download speeds.
    Using ADSL
    The A in ADSL stands for Asynchron which points at the difference in download and upload speed. I get to 3300 Kbps downloading and 128 kbps uploading. I've tryed to check this the best i can, and when downloading, my connection can maintain 3000 Kbps up until 30 - 40 MB, then the speeds drops to about the half.

    There's a provider, that unfourtunately doesn't deliver in my neighberhood, that even takes it to 8 Mbps downstream, 256 Mbps ustream, which is far faster then cable. In fact, they come out on top in the monthly providertest here.
    http://www.xs4all.be/

    So ADSL as a technology is just as good. It uses a regular phoneline (PSTN line) However, theres a limit (i believe its 5 kilometers or about 3 miles) in how far you can live from the amplifier or whatever it's called.
    Cable should deliver about 4400 kbps downsstream. But i've heard quite a few people complaining about the speed. I'm not an expert on that, but i've heard the speed can drop substantially on peakmoment.

    All these speeds aren't guaranteed. If you take a business account, it's somewhat more expensive, but you get guaranteeds speed. So it's worth asking some people from your neighborhood about there experiences

  • #4
    New to the CF scene
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    9
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    You can usually get a pretty good estimate of your dl/ul speeds here, also I think you can enter your zipcode and see what people get around you...

    http://www.dslreports.com/stest

  • #5
    Regular Coder
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    California
    Posts
    925
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Ive never used cable but like you already know cable is limited bandwidth per neighborhood. But researching DSL you can get just about anything you want as far as speed, it just gets costly. The more you want to pay the better the speeds, and I think the more IPs you can get too. From what I remember DSL has moved to a dynamic IP setup now so if you have had your static IP for awhile you can keep it but now if you want a static its more costly.


    Jason

  • #6
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    224
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    If you are running a webserver that gets more than 100 users in a year(like most these personal sites do ) I suggest getting a T1, $300-$1000 a month for (i think it is 32x cable) and super upgrades from there. T2 is like 28 T1s, and T3 is like 80 T1s (but they cost more than most people make) A T3 line can support microsoft companies comfortably, that give u an idea? :-}

  • #7
    raf
    raf is offline
    Master Coder
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    6,589
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Jason:
    But researching DSL you can get just about anything you want as far as speed, it just gets costly.
    Not necessarely true. It more depends on the providers in your neighberhood. XS4all is about 2.5 times faster then my current provider, and they just charge 2 euro more.

    Telenet, the cable-provider here, already did some testing on limiting speed to about 3Mbps. If i can believe the rumours they will do so to spread the bandwith more evenly between clients in the some neighberhood.
    Since it costs more to bring cable to the clients then just upgrading existing phone-infrastructure, i believe DSL has most potential for non-commercial users.

    mattover-matter:
    If you are running a webserver that gets more than 100 users in a year(like most these personal sites do ) I suggest getting a T1, $300-$1000 a month for (i think it is 32x cable) and super upgrades from there.
    One user in 3 days requires T1? What is T1?

  • #8
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    224
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    The "t" series are VERY fast modems usually split and shared. a medium-sized company can all share a T1 company. I think there are T6s out, but that would cost like 10,000 a month

  • #9
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    1,041
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
    Originally posted by mattover-matter
    The "t" series are VERY fast modems usually split and shared. a medium-sized company can all share a T1 company. I think there are T6s out, but that would cost like 10,000 a month
    ?????

    *shakes head*

    T-? are not modems... They are phone line specifications... For example:

    T-1 carrier - A dedicated phone connection supporting data rates of 1.544Mbits per second. A T-1 line actually consists of 24 individual channels, each of which supports 64Kbits per second. Each 64Kbit/second channel can be configured to carry voice or data traffic. Most telephone companies allow you to buy just some of these individual channels, known as fractional T-1 access.
    T-1 lines are a popular leased line option for businesses connecting to the Internet and for Internet Service Providers (ISPs) connecting to the Internet backbone. The Internet backbone itself consists of faster T-3 connections.

    T-1 lines are sometimes referred to as DS1 lines.

    Also it should be pointed out that there is no T-6 Carrier Specification...

    Your T-? Carrier lines stopped with the T-4, of those T-1's and T-3's are the most popular and widely used... T-1's and T-3's do not use a conventional modem (that is a device that modulates and de-modulates an analog signal into a digital signal and vice-versa), instead or rather they use a digital connection device - CSU/DSU (customer switching unit/digital switching unit) - to connect to four wires to carry the information. Most small Internet providers have a T1 (or a fractional T1) line as their broadband Internet connection. A Full T1 broadband Internet access line should accommodate from one to over 200+ users.

    After your T-? Carrier lines come the OC-?, or Optical Carrier Lines... These are fiber optic line's carrying 155 megabits per second...

    Generally the speed break down appears as such:

    T-1/DS1: 1.5 Mbps*
    T-3/DS3: 45 Mbps*
    OC1**: 51.84 Mbps*
    OC3: 155.52 Mbps*
    OC12: 622.08 Mbps*
    OC24: 1.244 Gbps***
    OC48: 2.488 Gbps***
    OC192: 10 Gbps***
    OC256: 13.271 Gbps***
    OC768: 40 Gbps***

    * - Mbps is represented as megabits per second as opposed to megabytes per second...
    ** - OC1 sets the base rate for the Optical Carrier Line...
    *** - Gbps is represented as gigabits per second as opposed to gigabytes per second...

    -sage-
    Last edited by sage45; 04-16-2003 at 08:14 PM.
    HTML & CSS Forum Moderator

    "If you don't know what you think you know, then what do you know."
    R.I.P. Derrick Thomas #58
    1/1/1967 - 2/8/2000

  • #10
    Regular Coder
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Bristol, UK
    Posts
    932
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    I just want to step in and put the record straight on speeds here. You do NOT need a T1 if you have only 100 visitors per year.

    Let's say a typical webpage on your site is 50k. 10 users hitting at the same time hence download 500k. However, these users are not going to get that page in one second. Some will be on dial-up 56k modems. Others will be on ADSL or cable

    So, how long for that 50k? probably around 12secs for 56k modem (around 5k/sec) and 2secs for DSL equivalent (around 50k/sec).

    But, we don't mind it being a bit slower. So. How many users can we support simultaneously on an ADSL connection...? Well, let's say 256k upload (which is standard for ADSL). That's Kbits, remember! Divide by 8 to get Kbytes. = 32k/sec. So, we can serve around 5 average users AT ONE MOMENT IN TIME.

    That means that unless your site pushes more than 5 SIMULTANEOUS users consistently, you can make do with ADSL.

    Now, that's looking on a per-second basis. You could easily have 1000 users per hour and not have problems (average = only 16 per minute!) so long as they were nice and waited their turns

    The trouble is, things don't work like that. People tend to come along all at once, at peak times. When looking at bandwidth, you always need to figure out what your maximum demand will be (like electricity). Also, what overheads do your pages have? That's more of a server-spec question, but still needs to be factored in somewhere

    So, the figure of 100 per year is totally, totally out.

    Now for the info about the speeds themselves. By the way, only modems are modems! That's for 56k and to a certain extent DSL and cable (called modems but actually they are network cards, basically.) Leased lines such as T1s use network cards, NOT MODEMS.

    Here's some info:

    Code:
    Bandwidth Comparison and  Reference Guide
     NORTH AMERICA, JAPAN, KOREA, ETC.
    Service  Voice Channels Speed
     DS0 		1 	64 Kbps
     DS1 (T1) 	24 	1.544 Mbps 
     DS1C (T1C) 	48 	3.152 Mbps 
     DS2 (T2) 	96 	6.312 Mbps 
     DS3 (T3) 	672 	44.736 Mbps 
     DS4 (T4) 	4032 	274.176 Mbps 
     EUROPE (ITU)
     E1 		30 	2.048 Mbps
     E2 		120 	8.448 Mbps
     E3 		480 	34.368 Mbps
     E4 		1920 	139.264 Mbps
     E5 		7680 	565.148 Mbps
      
     SONET CIRCUITS
     Service 	   	Data Rate (Mbps)
     STS-1  	OC1 	51.84 (28 DS1s or 1 DS3)
     STS-3 		OC3 	155.52 (3 STS-1s)
     STS-3c 	OC3c 	155.52 (concatenated)
     STS-12 	OC12 	622.08 (12 STS-1s, 4 STS-3s)
     STS-12c 	OC12c 	622.08 (12 STS-1s, 4 STS-3c's)
     STS-48 	OC48 	2488.32 (48 STS-1s, 16 STS-3s)
     
     ITTU-T 	Data Rate  	Payload Rate 
     STM-1  	155.52 		150.336
     STM-3 		466.56 		451.008
     STM-4 		622.08 		601.344
     STM-6 		933.12 		902.016
     STM-8 		1244.16 	1202.688
     STM-12 	1866.24 	1804.032
     STM-16 	2488.32 	2405.376
     
    ETHERNET
     10 Base T 	10 Mbps
     100 Base T 	100 Mbps
     Gigabit 	1 Gbps
    There is NO T6. It only goes up to T4. And you can get ADSL that is faster than T1, however that is asynchronous so it would be better to get SDSL

    I hope that clears some things up

    ::] krycek [::

    mattover-matter, please try to check your info before posting. Speculation does not help anyone, and can easily confuse.
    Last edited by krycek; 04-16-2003 at 07:24 PM.
    ithium | SOAPI | SDP | PTPScript manual
    "ithium is a non-profit webhost, which is pretty much unique. The mission of ithium is to provide free hosting resources for worthwhile and needy non-profit projects, which otherwise may not be able to obtain such facilities. The money from commercial customers goes to maintain ithium's servers and further development."

  • #11
    Regular Coder
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Bristol, UK
    Posts
    932
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    lol, well done sage, you beat me to it

    I took 20 minutes writing my post

    ::] krycek [::
    ithium | SOAPI | SDP | PTPScript manual
    "ithium is a non-profit webhost, which is pretty much unique. The mission of ithium is to provide free hosting resources for worthwhile and needy non-profit projects, which otherwise may not be able to obtain such facilities. The money from commercial customers goes to maintain ithium's servers and further development."

  • #12
    Regular Coder
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Bristol, UK
    Posts
    932
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    By the way, this may prove of some interest:

    http://www.sciencegems.com/HSG/AATimeCalc.html



    ::] krycek [::
    ithium | SOAPI | SDP | PTPScript manual
    "ithium is a non-profit webhost, which is pretty much unique. The mission of ithium is to provide free hosting resources for worthwhile and needy non-profit projects, which otherwise may not be able to obtain such facilities. The money from commercial customers goes to maintain ithium's servers and further development."

  • #13
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    1,041
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
    LOL... np man... It took me some time to, just going back and rechecking my info as well...

    I like the way yours is formatted as well...

    -sage-
    HTML & CSS Forum Moderator

    "If you don't know what you think you know, then what do you know."
    R.I.P. Derrick Thomas #58
    1/1/1967 - 2/8/2000

  • #14
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    224
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Ok, T-1s are very fast isp providers?

    I was doing that from memory, so I knew i'd be a bit off

  • #15
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    1,041
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
    No matt.. As I said, they are phone line specifications... The service provided by them depends specifically on what the person/organization, utilizing the line, decides to do with them... Some people use them to setup an ISP, other's use them for corporate pipelines and others use them for personal broadband access... There are many other uses for them as well...

    -sage-
    HTML & CSS Forum Moderator

    "If you don't know what you think you know, then what do you know."
    R.I.P. Derrick Thomas #58
    1/1/1967 - 2/8/2000


  •  
    Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •