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Thread: Ie 8??!!?

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    Senior Coder jcdevelopment's Avatar
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    Ie 8??!!?

    I have been hearing alot of talk on the release of IE8 that it will be absolutely w3c compatible and that it will be exactly as FF is? Is this true? I have read a few articles but i dont get out much so im not sure if this is true, and if anyone has any links to info, please post them!!

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    IE8 is still going to fail like all the rest. they say it might be like FF, but their talking about FF2. By the time IE8 comes out, FF3 or maybe even FF4 will be out. No matter what, IE is going to be one step behind.
    Not much, but its something.

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    It'd be nice, but I'm not holding my breath!
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    The Apostate Apostropartheid's Avatar
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    Come on, that's rubbish. No browser is fully compliant. Ffx only just got around to getting a CSS1 property out in their third release.

    Edit: IE8 Standards Mode looks very, very promising, though. I shall like to see it in action.
    Last edited by Apostropartheid; 01-15-2008 at 07:17 PM.

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    Regular Coder Aradon's Avatar
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    If internet explorer does become like firefox and allow for neat little addons like downthemall! then I'll go right back to it. After all, IE tends to be less of a memory hog.
    "To iterate is human, to recurse divine." -L. Peter Deutsch

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    Senior Coder jcdevelopment's Avatar
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    ok, lets just say IE8 comes fully standard and compatible, would we now have to go back and change every IE hack on our sites to accomidate to them?

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    The fat guy next door VIPStephan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcdevelopment View Post
    ok, lets just say IE8 comes fully standard and compatible, would we now have to go back and change every IE hack on our sites to accomidate to them?
    Only if you didn’t write your CSS forward compatible. Conditional comments won’t break for sure.

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    evo
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    I've read at El Reg (www.theregister.co.uk) that it passes the Acid Test. That says something.

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    liorean <[lio@wg]>
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    Look at this comment on msdn blog
    The Dream is not what you see in sleep; Dream is the thing which doesn't let you sleep. --(Dr. APJ. Abdul Kalam)

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    The fat guy next door VIPStephan's Avatar
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    That poses the question: Will the HTML/CSS forum become obsolete with all websites working alike in all browsers and nothing to worry about anymore?

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    Quote Originally Posted by VIPStephan View Post
    That poses the question: Will the HTML/CSS forum become obsolete with all websites working alike in all browsers and nothing to worry about anymore?
    In our dreams alone

    Ie8 won't be out for a year, as predictions go, and it'll still not have caught up with op/wk/moz (no SVG, no Canvas, no application/xhtml+xml, no XML namespaces support, probably nothing from HTML5, probably nothing from ES4 or Mozilla JavaScript 1.5-1.8, less DOM than the other browsers already support), and it'll handle all current content the same way as ie7 (standards or quirks), we need to add some specific "I want standards and really mean it!" marker comment to turn ie8 standards mode on.
    liorean <[lio@wg]>
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    Senior Coder TheShaner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIPStephan View Post
    That poses the question: Will the HTML/CSS forum become obsolete with all websites working alike in all browsers and nothing to worry about anymore?
    That's like physicists agreeing on the Grand Unified Theory! Sure, we all want to believe it'll happen because that'll make all laws (browsers) agree on one standard. But to me, it's like a mirage; no matter how close we get, we'll always still be a ways off

    -Shane

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    Regular Coder Skyzyx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by liorean View Post
    Ie8 won't be out for a year, as predictions go, and it'll still not have caught up with op/wk/moz
    Perhaps, but we don't know that yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by liorean View Post
    (no SVG, no Canvas, no application/xhtml+xml, no XML namespaces support, probably nothing from HTML5, probably nothing from ES4 or Mozilla JavaScript 1.5-1.8, less DOM than the other browsers already support)
    Again, this is not a definitive statement. I've only done minimal testing with Internet Explorer 8.0 Beta 1 so far, but I believe I read that it has some preliminary/partial support for HTML5. I would guess that you're right about SVG and <canvas> (Microsoft is pushing Silverlight, and <canvas> isn't a formal standard yet).

    EMCAScript 4 (colloquially JavaScript 2.0) is also unlikely because Microsoft has a "don't break the web" stance (you need to be involved in these discussions to understand the statement... and it makes sense from a usability perspective, although not if you view the statement from a CSS point of view) and ES4 has some substantial changes in it from their existing support for JavaScript/JScript 1.3. Unless they integrate Spidermonkey with ES4 support (HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!... whew... *wipes eyes*).

    Quote Originally Posted by liorean View Post
    and it'll handle all current content the same way as ie7 (standards or quirks), we need to add some specific "I want standards and really mean it!" marker comment to turn ie8 standards mode on.
    This stance was changed based on web developer feedback. Enterprise customers will be pissed off because this will absolutely affect them negatively, but it will be fantastic for the rest of us building for the web who are educated about standards and layered semantic markup.

    Creator of SimplePie and Tarzan AWS, co-founder of WarpShare, co-built the Y! Messenger website, usability-focused, and an INFJ personality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyzyx View Post
    Perhaps, but we don't know that yet.
    Yes we do. Microsoft has made a few statements that make it clear they're not going to do a few things. They are not finished with patent analysis for the new media elements or canvas for instance, and they are not going to implement them without an okay from their patents lawyers. With IE8 this far in development, I do not expect they will be able to crank out an implementation before releasing it even if they got an okay from their lawyers right now.
    Again, this is not a definitive statement. I've only done minimal testing with Internet Explorer 8.0 Beta 1 so far, but I believe I read that it has some preliminary/partial support for HTML5.
    Yes, Microsoft surprised everyone by doing that. Especially since they haven't submitted any feedback or comments on most of the things they implemented, and have a broken implementation of at least one of the technologies.
    I would guess that you're right about SVG and <canvas> (Microsoft is pushing Silverlight, and <canvas> isn't a formal standard yet).
    Canvas is the most solid addition to HTML in the entire HTML5 spec yet though. It has three very good native implementations and several hacky ones for ie. It also has four years of implementor experience behind it.

    SVG, Microsoft has to my knowledge not made any statements regarding whether they intent to support it or not. They have said they will not support XHTML until they can do it right from the start however, and that sounds discouraging for them adding SVG in IE8 to me.
    EMCAScript 4 (colloquially JavaScript 2.0) is also unlikely because Microsoft has a "don't break the web" stance (you need to be involved in these discussions to understand the statement... and it makes sense from a usability perspective, although not if you view the statement from a CSS point of view) and ES4 has some substantial changes in it from their existing support for JavaScript/JScript 1.3.
    Well, I've been involved in and following the discussions, see my Linkdump on ECMAScript 3/4 and Further links on ECMAScript 4 blog entries. I still feel that Microsoft has absolutely zero valid arguments for their position. They have not been able to conjur up any examples of where an ES4 implementation in ES3 mode would break the web where an ES3 implementation would not.
    Unless they integrate Spidermonkey with ES4 support (HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!... whew... *wipes eyes*).
    ScreamingMonkey! Installation vector: Adobe Flash Player. Brendan has said they will table the project if Microsoft decides to start implementing ES4 before ScreamingMonkey has begun being distributed in order to prevent interoperability problems coming from having two alternative scripting engines for the same language in the same browser.
    This stance was changed based on web developer feedback. Enterprise customers will be pissed off because this will absolutely affect them negatively, but it will be fantastic for the rest of us building for the web who are educated about standards and layered semantic markup.
    Good for the future web, bad for the current web, not a problem for enterprise as Microsoft has provided them with the tools to use IE8 in IE7 mode on intranets. I really think that in the discussions about this, the Intranet side of has been overblown. It WILL have real bad consequences on many sites on the internet, and Microsoft will be the ones who get the blame from the users when IE8 breaks sites that worked perfectly in IE7, sadly, not the web developers.
    liorean <[lio@wg]>
    Articles: RegEx evolt wsabstract , Named Arguments
    Useful Threads: JavaScript Docs & Refs, FAQ - HTML & CSS Docs, FAQ - XML Doc & Refs
    Moz: JavaScript DOM Interfaces MSDN: JScript DHTML KDE: KJS KHTML Opera: Standards


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