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  1. #1
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    Hi, I'm a PC.. And I'm a PC too?

    Just for a sanity check here... Macs are PCs right? My Commodore 64 is listed as a PC so I'm pretty sure Macs are.

    And "PC" in those adverts means Windows right? However, can't a PC run Windows, Unix, MacOS, Linux etc

    Do they just have to call it PC to avoid a lawsuit from Microsoft or something?

    In which case do they just blast past the fact that Mac is an OS for a PC and advertise it as an alternative for PCs (like how they market iPods as if they were different to MP3 players? I wonder if they will ever do "I'm an iPod and im a MP3 player .. I can connect to iStuff.. I can connect to any 'PC' because I dont use silly proprietory technology") so that they can say that they are better than their competitors which are (also) PCs?

    Sorry if this sounds like I'm taking swings at Apple, really I'm just trying to work out where in the world their (false/misleading) advertising comes from

  • #2
    Senior Coder NancyJ's Avatar
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    Yes macs are PCs in the sense that PC stands for personal computer. They're not 'IBM Compatible' PCs... though that's a really outdated phrase, later replaced with 'wintel' - but macs can have intel processors and run windows now too, so yeah, they're basically just PCs like all the others... except 10% more poncy

    hmmm, that has me pondering what the gaming performance would be of a top spec mac pro running windows would be. 4x the ram and 2x the processing power of a top spec alienware.... not worth $10k to find out though

  • #3
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    Not just that, but go to any MacWorld convention and you'll hear Apple touting that it's a hardware company. They don't make software, except when it runs on their hardware, which only they make, except when they use someone elses, but that doesn't count because they're a hardware company.

    Got it?

    Yeah, me neither

    For the record, I don't think you can run a MacOS on just any PC - it only runs on a Mac. But I may be wrong on that. I know that you can run almost any popular OS on a Mac now (Windows, Linux and OSX) but I don't think the reverse is true.

    So yes, I agree with you that a "Mac" is in fact a "PC" and as such their campaign is misleading to the extent that it's technically wrong. But in everyday common parlance a PC is a computer that's running Windows. So from that standpoint, it's not misleading.

  • #4
    Senior Coder NancyJ's Avatar
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    If a PC is something that runs windows and a mac is a computer made by Apple, whats a computer made by Apple, running windows called? Or for that matter any computer running linux

  • #5
    The fat guy next door VIPStephan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NancyJ View Post
    hmmm, that has me pondering what the gaming performance would be of a top spec mac pro running windows would be. 4x the ram and 2x the processing power of a top spec alienware.... not worth $10k to find out though
    If I recall correctly it’s more a matter of the graphic card performance which is better on non-Macintosh PCs – at least for games that require a top 3D blahblah thingy (you see, I have no idea ) – games like Quake 3 or the like.
    One of my favorite games is Transport Tycoon, though (or its open source clones, respectively), which – if there was a Mac OS compatible version – wouldn’t make any difference at all.

    As to the terms I think the whole PC and Mac debate is just something for the average user that doesn’t know a sh!t other than switching their computer on and starting their e-mail and/or chat program to easily distinguish their “thing” from “the other computers that only geeks are using”.
    Like “I have a PC and open up Explorer to browse through the internet. Mac? I’ve heard of that… But that’s strange and unfamiliar, and I don’t want it! And Unix? What’s that? Never heard of it… That can’t be a PC because doesn’t have Windows… Is that at all possible?”

    Unfortunately, the personal computer’s rise and distribution is strongly connected with the rise of Microsoft and its popular Windows OS and if I may quote myself from another thread: Once it’s in their head you can’t get it out anymore.
    And after all, it’s just shorter to say “This is a Mac and that is a PC” rather than “This is an Apple PC and that is a Windows/MS compatible PC”. However, I also don’t like this way to distinguish because clearly it’s abstracting the original term “PC/personal computer” from its original meaning. I usually say “Windows PC”.

    I think that Mac marketing term evolved because there were times where it really looked like Apple just wanted to be different from Microsoft by all means. So they accentuated their difference by calling their computers Macintosh (which evolved to “Mac” later on).

    And by the way: The Macs before Intel are internally called PPC - Power PC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bcarl314 View Post
    For the record, I don't think you can run a MacOS on just any PC - it only runs on a Mac. But I may be wrong on that.

    And now that OS X runs on Intel CPUs, I'd imagine the only thing really stopping someone from running OS X on any old x86 machine is internal safe guards put in by Apple.

    I haven't heard if anyone has cracked it so it will run on non-Apple "made" hardware but I wouldn't be surprised if it happens.
    OracleGuy

  • #7
    Regular Coder Karen S. Garvin's Avatar
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    whats a computer made by Apple, running windows called
    slow...

    I have worked on both Intel-based PCs and Macs for a long time now - running on 25 years on PC and at least 17 for the Mac. Because I work on both systems, I feel qualified to comment on them.

    I really don’t like Macs because the hardware user interface is basically awful. Right now I’m typing on a shlocky apple keyboard that can’t keep up with me and makes me punch the keys to get anything at all. I never had problems with carpal tunnel syndrome until I worked with Macs, and that’s the truth The software is ok, but there's not much variety available for the native OS. And Macs aren't crash-proof; neither are they virus-free. Been there, seen that.

    Back in the early 1980s there was a fairly big difference in the approach of the operating systems with the DOS vs. GUI interfaces, etc. These days that’s all but disappeared, so it’s a matter mostly of personal preference. Is a Ford or a Chevy better to drive? You’ll find arguements pro and con for both, I expect. Yet there are die-hards who refuse to listen to other’s opinions, or worse, insist that everyone must do things their way.

    I work with this idiocy everyday, and the main thing that I have to endure is the incredible arrogance and rudeness on the part of Mac users, who in their daily worship of the god in the machine, seek to make everyone else feel inferior so they can feel good about their own inadequacies. Being a PC user who is stuck on a Mac at work (I have a real nice system at home with a good keyboard...), I get the flak from office workers who just can’t leave well enough alone.

    I’m frankly feed up with the politicizing of the choice of computer, for that’s what it is. All systems have some merits; why can’t we allow people to choose what they want? I have to mute those apple commercials, or else I would throw a chair through my TV. I hate that kind of advertising and I refuse to buy into the promulgation of arrogance and intolerance that it promotes.

    Just my rant for the day.
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  • #8
    Senior Coder NancyJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIPStephan View Post
    If I recall correctly it’s more a matter of the graphic card performance which is better on non-Macintosh PCs – at least for games that require a top 3D blahblah thingy (you see, I have no idea ) – games like Quake 3 or the like.
    One of my favorite games is Transport Tycoon, though (or its open source clones, respectively), which – if there was a Mac OS compatible version – wouldn’t make any difference at all.
    Wow, you're not kidding when you say you have no idea Quake 3 is over 7 years old! But FWIW, the mac pro's have nVidia graphics cards - not the latest in the nForce range but they do offer a quadro card (again, not the top end one) which you dont see offered in a lot of PCs - so they dont do SLi or twin SLi but it looks like they're only behind on graphics through choice. Macs arent gaming rigs so why offer gaming grade graphics cards, I guess is the thinking behind it but the cards appear to be standard PCI-E so in theory theres no reason why you couldnt put in a higher spec card - still wouldnt get SLi (unless they're hiding an extra slot in there) but most games arent equipped to fully take advantage yet anyway.

  • #9
    The fat guy next door VIPStephan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NancyJ View Post
    Wow, you're not kidding when you say you have no idea
    Hey, I’ve never been a geek in school.
    Yeah, Quake 3 just came to my mind as the example for a game requiring the latest graphic cards (at the time it was current) because that’s the only game of this kind I’ve ever played. And you’re right, that was a couple of years ago.

    It can make addicted, though.

  • #10
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    Quake 3 isn't something to discard because it is fairly old, it's actually still used in benchmarking Graphic Cards, along with other more recent games, including, still, Half Life 2, and the likes.

    As for the Mac and PC debate, that itself is somewhat ironic in itself. Macs are good, but it's generally because they focus almost all of the CPU on the specific task at hand. It's why the old G3's crashed so much. The G4's got a little better at the game, but not by a margin. Once the 2nd Gen came out along with G5's with dual core processors, the appeal of a mac increased.

    Macs are used for their ability to harness processing power. Granted with the days of old and G3's, all the processing power was harnessed into the given task at hand. It's why they are used in design studios so much.

    The bridge between the Windows PC and the Mac PC is closing, and I have to regretfully say the Mac PC is shooting way ahead. The UI on a mac is orientated for a school-kid, but it's effective. The only thing that puts me off now, are the users and community behind the corporation, who think they are immune. The recent competition to see how quickly a Mac could get hacked was an example. I don't think they expected it to happen, nevermind so quickly.

    I'm a Windows (XP) PC man. The only thing that could tempt me off is power hungry monster of a mac fitted with a delicious 30" plasma HD mac screen. And that's not gonna happen anytime soon.

  • #11
    Regular Coder Karen S. Garvin's Avatar
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    The only thing that puts me off now, are the users and community behind the corporation, who think they are immune.
    "Pride goeth before a fall."

    Seriously, if they would drop the attitude, the machine is ok. Just way overpriced because it's marketed as a "designer" computer. Kind of like how designer jeans cost five times what a standard pair of jeans costs.

    As far as the OS, we've had to install about three security upgrades in the last two months. I thought the Mac OS was free of those kind of issues? Apple needs to get it's head out of its a**.
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  • #12
    The fat guy next door VIPStephan's Avatar
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    Wow, you must have had some real bad experiences in the past. Got an ex-boyfriend that owned a Mac?

  • #13
    Senior Coder NancyJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIPStephan View Post
    Wow, you must have had some real bad experiences in the past. Got an ex-boyfriend that owned a Mac?
    Mac users dont date girls

  • #14
    The fat guy next door VIPStephan's Avatar
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    Oh haahaa…
    You wanna say I’m gay, huh? I’ve got that! I ain’t stupid, you know?
    Is it my fault that I’m good looking in my speedos?

    Don’t make me angry, I might start throwing dabbers at ya!
    Last edited by VIPStephan; 05-17-2007 at 09:03 PM.

  • #15
    Regular Coder Graft-Creative's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIPStephan View Post
    I think that Mac marketing term evolved because there were times where it really looked like Apple just wanted to be different from Microsoft by all means. So they accentuated their difference by calling their computers Macintosh (which evolved to “Mac” later on).
    And by the way: The Macs before Intel are internally called PPC - Power PC.
    Not sure that's entirely correct - Apple were just following their muse in promoting the WIMP workspace - along with Atari, Amiga, etc.

    MS took ages to catch onto WIMP - the early versions of Windows didn't even have drag-n-drop between windows - yet they called it 'Windows'?!

    They were heady days back then - people were kinda passionate about which PC/OS they used, and now the Apple Vs. Windows thing seems to have become as relevant as Prada Vs. Primark - i.e. - a tad shallow.

    A shame really.

    Gary


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