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  1. #1
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    How about a Flash forum

    I've had a few questions about Flash and I wasn't really sure where to post them. I've noticed people asking Flash questions in various forums and it would be nice to have its own section. Just an idea!
    -WebMark Art
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  • #2
    jkd
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    www.were-here.com

    Last I checked was an excellent Flash forum. There have been previous requests for a Flash forum before we even changed WSAbstract to Javascriptkit. But I don't believe there was ever enough demand to warrant a flash forum.

    And of course, you have a better, W3C-standards vector graphics format called SVG available now , which questions about are appropriate in the XML forum.

    :: hates Flash ::

  • #3
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    I understand that there aren't as many requests for flash info, but just because there are "better" options out there in your opinion does not mean that flash isn't worth discussing. If the forums worked on opinions of what was better it wouldn’t be such a resourceful tool.

    I'm not saying there aren't other flash forums out there, but I just though it would be nice to have an added resource in the same place rather than going here for this and this and there for that and that.

    I'll check out the link you posted and hopefully I can get my question answered. Thanks.
    -WebMark Art
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  • #4
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    Were-here is a nasty forum with some nasty stuck up members, beware and don't expect the niceties and helpfulness you get here.
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  • #5
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    There's a flash forum over at Sitepoint

    Originally posted by jkd
    And of course, you have a better, W3C-standards vector graphics format called SVG available now , which questions about are appropriate in the XML forum.

    :: hates Flash ::
    Hey jkd,

    I don't think there is anyone here that's been around in this forum that doubts your knowledge in any programmatic area. But you must draw a line with your standards evangelism SOMEwhere. If you truly are in high school as you say, I understand that some of this may come from a natural immaturity (hey, I know I had it )

    But Flash is a great program, and much more suited for people who are design savvy instead of programming savvy for vector graphics animation on the web, besides the fact that it incorporates other media with those graphics and can import existing art from popular programs such as Freehand or Illustrator.

    Remember, most of us are out here in the real world making websites that people need to use TODAY (or as deadlines would have it, yesterday ). There are more computers in the office I work in that have the Flash plugin installed that perhaps the total number of people on the planet using a fully SVG enabled browser (exaggeration, perhaps, but you should get my point)

    Oh, and one more thing. Be careful how you use the word 'better', because it is completely subjective and doesn't really apply here or help anyone.

    No hard feelings, just thoughts.

    </rant>

    Since you ARE the Gecko guru that you are, can you check out my post in the CSS forum and h00k me up?

  • #6
    jkd
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    Originally posted by beetle

    ... some blasphemy or whatnot ...
    My inclination towards evangelism of web standards is not from immaturity, but from a desire to make the web developer-friendly. Age means very little these days on the Internet, and I certainly hope my being only 16 doesn't lower your opinion of my capabilties.

    True, I'm in high school, but I've been writing web sites and related effects for over 4 years. Back when Netscape 4 reigned king, and IE was just a challenger, and quickly gaining popularity. Do you think I liked rewriting everything two times just to have navigable sites in IE4 and NS4 utilizing the latest abilities of those browsers? Do you like rewriting everything twice (or more)? (That is less of an issue though nowadays, with poor but usable CSS support in IE, and DOM1 Core support in IE as well).

    The entire idea of standards is so that developer's can be productive! Write things once, and have it work across all browsers, all platforms! Much like what Java is, write once, debug everywhere. You can't expect identical implementations across all platforms (hence debug everywhere), but they should be awfully close.

    By choosing to ignore web standards, or at least not actively supporting them, you are ruining the future of an open Internet, available to all platforms and browsers.
    In the very least, until standards compliant browsers are the norm (you could argue that they are, but IE needs to be a lot more standards compliant to really showcase the benefits), write a W3C-friendly page, and provide an alternate old-browser page.

    Anyway, that is my off-topic standards spiel.

    As for SVG compared to Flash, the only argument you made that stands is the integration of audio, at the moment. SVG can include any image format the browser supports, including png, jpg, gif, etc. As for being design savvy, graphics editors are beginning to allow the exportation of images to SVG format.
    And the deal with audio is that the Adobe SVG Viewer has its own proprietary extensions to deal with that, and W3C has drafts of documents that could eventually be merged with SVG.

    And, the most important factor in my opinion, being a poor high school student after all, to really design Flash, you need to shell out the bucks. SVG is a free and open standard, that you can write in a myriad of free software.

    Anyway, mouse, thanks for pointing out the problems with were-here. I had only assumed that they were a good forum because of an excellent member that used to frequent WA (Sally C) spoke highly of it.
    But that was a *long* time ago, and wouldn't surprise me in the least if it changed.

  • #7
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    Well, I didn't say your inclination for standards evangelism came from your maturity level, but rather your attitude towards those that don't share your opinion for it. And for the record, I don't hold it against you. I wish I could have discovered all this stuff at your age.
    Originally posted by jkd
    the only argument you made that stands is the integration of audio
    I would have to disagree with you here, because flash has been around for years, and exists NOW (that seems to escape you). Flash can also: Integrate video, produce Quicktime MOVs, be compiled to an EXE, and be created with ZERO program knowledge. And what is non-standard about a free plugin? Oh, and ever heard of Swish? Sure it's not free, but it's more powerful than you think, and only $50. And what's the point of SVG supporting only raster images? Does it even take EPS? I mean, the V in SVG means Vector, right?</sarcasm>
    Originally posted by jkd
    By choosing to ignore web standards, or at least not actively supporting them, you are ruining the future of an open Internet
    You said this to me once before, but again, I'll have to call you on it. First of all, I don't chosee to ignore anything. Do you think my client's give a rat's butt that my pages aren't 100% standard, or use 3rd party plugins, or conversely that they are all standard? No. (most of the time) they want sites that people can use and understand today. And they want them on-time and on-budget. Remember, there is more than just technology to the web, there's economics. Those, my friend, are perhaps the biggest enemy (except the browser makers) to web-standards...not the refusal of any person to adopt them.

    Oh, and in case you are wondering, yes, Controversy and I are close buddies

    P.S. You still haven't checked out my CSS layout problem!
    Last edited by beetle; 08-14-2002 at 11:14 PM.

  • #8
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    Flash is not developer friendly nor are flash developers helpful at all, infact they totally oppose tech like php which aims to infiltrate every developers cv. This is the reason Macromedia are making ActionScript so much like JavaScript; they need people who're willing to help and support fellow designers.
    Flash as a technology is awesome, there's nothing like it and I don't see SVG coming close. What I do see is SVG taking a large portion of developers away from Flash if Microsoft distribute the plugins. As it stands Flash will continue and a handful of developers will create awesome sites. Those same developers are greedy and their selfish inability to share knowledge has already hurt flash in a big way, unless things change quick they may find Macromedia do an about turn and start opening the technology up.
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  • #9
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    Mouse, you make a good point. However, I don't think a technology's 'internet community' is what will make that technology sink or swim. Many people have learned Flash (or javascript, or PHP) without the help of those that are more experienced.

    I don't believe SVG will outdo Flash either. Obviously SVG has a major advantage in being open source, but I don't think SVG will truly replace Flash but for select people (like jkd). If it does, then it's years down the road.

    And not all flash developers are greedy. A good buddy of mine walked me through my first baby steps with Flash, and he did the old (and better, IMHO) drpepper.com.

  • #10
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    It was not my intention on starting a debate on the functionality of flash nor its web standards. I have flash questions, other people have flash quesions I just thought the board might want to answer the questions rather than refer me to another board. Isnt that one of the most fundamental rules in web development? Keep the user on your site!

    I agree with you mouse about several things you said, but lets not be ignorant and group all flash developers as unhelpful. I don't think I need to explain why.

    Just for the record noone from this, sitepoint, flashkit, or were-here forums has been able to answer my question.
    -WebMark Art
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  • #11
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    Ok, I think this has been hashed over enough, let's give it a rest. The original topic was simply a suggestion for a flash forum. It's a valid suggestion and has been noted. Let's not get carried away here .
    boxer_1
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