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  1. #1
    Supreme Master coder! _Aerospace_Eng_'s Avatar
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    Moderators of forums

    This forum has moderators for a reason but it doesn't help when they don't do their job. I reported this thread nearly a year ago. Its against the TOS of whatever script that is yet it was never locked or deleted and now it has been brought back up. You give us the report a problem button for a reason but whats the point if no one listens?

    Obfuscated code :(
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    Senior Coder CFMaBiSmAd's Avatar
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    Specific to that thread, if we assume that the protected code was copyrighted material and covered by the DMCA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DMCA, it is a violation of the DMCA to distribute the method used to extract the protected content, which that thread does, and it is a violation of copyright laws to distribute the protected content itself, which that thread does as well.

    Any thread that even hints at doing something wrong should be deleted as soon as it is noticed or reported.
    If you are learning PHP, developing PHP code, or debugging PHP code, do yourself a favor and check your web server log for errors and/or turn on full PHP error reporting in php.ini or in a .htaccess file to get PHP to help you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CFMaBiSmAd View Post
    Specific to that thread, if we assume that the protected code was copyrighted material and covered by the DMCA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DMCA, it is a violation of the DMCA to distribute the method used to extract the protected content, which that thread does, and it is a violation of copyright laws to distribute the protected content itself, which that thread does as well.
    That assumes that the website is being hosted and owned within the United States. Which I know is at least partially not true, if not completely.
    OracleGuy

  • #4
    Supreme Overlord Spookster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Aerospace_Eng_ View Post
    This forum has moderators for a reason but it doesn't help when they don't do their job. I reported this thread nearly a year ago. Its against the TOS of whatever script that is yet it was never locked or deleted and now it has been brought back up. You give us the report a problem button for a reason but whats the point if no one listens?

    Obfuscated code :(
    It seems from your post that you assume the moderators in question just ignored your reporting of the thread. They may have reviewed the post/thread and dealt with it as they saw fit. If they did not delete it then they may have not felt there was enough information to deem it a violation of our forum rules.

    Just because you report a thread does not mean we are going to automatically delete or edit a thread/post without first investigating. And it also doesn't mean we will come to the same conclusions as you do.

    I don't think it was very appropriate of you to blindly accuse them of not doing their jobs. They may have looked into it and deemed that the appropriate action was to leave it be.
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  • #5
    UE Antagonizer Fumigator's Avatar
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    So you're saying the thread was judged to be OK by a moderator?

    Interesting... in my Business Ethics 101 college class we pontificated over such situations and here it is in real life. WoW!

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    Supreme Master coder! _Aerospace_Eng_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookster View Post
    It seems from your post that you assume the moderators in question just ignored your reporting of the thread. They may have reviewed the post/thread and dealt with it as they saw fit. If they did not delete it then they may have not felt there was enough information to deem it a violation of our forum rules.

    Just because you report a thread does not mean we are going to automatically delete or edit a thread/post without first investigating. And it also doesn't mean we will come to the same conclusions as you do.

    I don't think it was very appropriate of you to blindly accuse them of not doing their jobs. They may have looked into it and deemed that the appropriate action was to leave it be.
    Its clearly against the forum rules for a thread like that to be left open. Usually when I report something and the moderator who sees the report doesn't agree with me will send me a pm and get back to me.

    Me seeing that not even a comment in the thread or something tell me that it was looked at makes it seem like nothing was ever done about it.

    I'm in agreement with Fum on this one. Spook you mean to tell me that that thread is okay?

    Did you read the thread?

    I've noticed quite a few moderators who often never appear to be around. They just seem to be on some list saying they are a moderator.

    Maybe its time to rethink the job of a moderator. If a moderator isn't around then how can be helpful to the forum?
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    WA
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    I think you'll find most reported threads are taken care of rather quickly by the mods. There are gaps, because, well, mods are volunteers too, and at any given time a few of them will be less active than the rest.

    Regarding that thread, I think what happened was that a mod after looking at it was uncertain whether it should be deleted outright, and eventually, the thread was left to exist as the mods and I forgot about it. It is an interesting thread though- asking for help unobfuscating a JavaScript. Is it more of a technique that in itself is fine, but only when the user posts code that he is trying to uncover that is copyrighted does it become malicious/ illegal?
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  • #8
    Senior Coder NancyJ's Avatar
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    Personally, I don't see that its any different that someone asking for help cracking some software or where to download warez - and those would have been deleted/locked without a second thought.
    The question essentially boils down to - 'how can I access something the author doesn't want me to?'

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    Regular Coder ralph l mayo's Avatar
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    The TOS forbidding the poster from reverse-engineering their javascript is hypothetical, not actual as far as any of us know. You could make an argument for deleting any thread with code posted that wasn't written by the poster for running afoul of any number of hypothetical contract points regarding disclosure, copying, distribution in part, derivative works, etc. But as long as all the violations are just within the realm of possibility, it seems much better to me to give the benefit of the doubt to the user in lieu of actual cause for deletion.
    Last edited by ralph l mayo; 10-19-2007 at 12:11 AM.

  • #10
    jkd
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    There is no reverse-engineering on that thread. The code is right out there in the open, with characters converted to their hexadecimal entities. There is no decryption, simply translation.

    Javascript obfuscation is a sham, and I feel no need to delete threads which reveal it as such.

  • #11
    Supreme Master coder! _Aerospace_Eng_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jkd View Post
    There is no reverse-engineering on that thread. The code is right out there in the open, with characters converted to their hexadecimal entities. There is no decryption, simply translation.

    Javascript obfuscation is a sham, and I feel no need to delete threads which reveal it as such.
    Okay, thank you for that. I'm glad one of the moderators of that forum has given a reason as to why the thread wasn't closed or deleted.
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  • #12
    $object->toCD-R(LP); vinyl-junkie's Avatar
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    Aero, I have to ask. Don't you also have some responsibility here to follow up on your report to see that something was done about it? I don't know about you, but when I report a post, whether in CF or another forum, I check back later (and by that, I don't mean a YEAR later) to see that some action was taken. Things that slip through the cracks for whatever reason tend to be handled in a more timely manner when you do that.
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  • #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by jkd View Post
    There is no reverse-engineering on that thread. The code is right out there in the open, with characters converted to their hexadecimal entities. There is no decryption, simply translation.

    Javascript obfuscation is a sham, and I feel no need to delete threads which reveal it as such.
    I agree 100%. Code obfuscation and "security by obscurity" are not valid methods for protecting either a site nor code. I don't view this any different than someone posting that you can do a google search for "passwords.xls" and come up with some pretty sensitive information. Just because someone thinks it's secure, doesn't make it so.

    Now, on the other hand, if someone posted a binary compiled file and asked for help "figuring out the source code" or if someone was looking for a password crack tool, I view that as a completely different issue. But the people who want help in an issue similar to the post mentioned here, are, in my opinion, the same people that want to know how to stop someone from "viewing source". It's the same game to me.

  • #14
    Supreme Overlord Spookster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Aerospace_Eng_ View Post
    Okay, thank you for that. I'm glad one of the moderators of that forum has given a reason as to why the thread wasn't closed or deleted.
    Nice apology.
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