Hello and welcome to our community! Is this your first visit?
Register
Enjoy an ad free experience by logging in. Not a member yet? Register.
Results 1 to 15 of 15
  1. #1
    Regular Coder ajhauser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Earlville. It's where Earls come from.
    Posts
    226
    Thanks
    74
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Is ColdFusion worthwhile?

    Hey guys.
    I am VERY new to databases and I am looking to set up a simple shopping cart app, through my research it seems that my best bet would be to use MySQL (since this is also supported by my host) but I am not sure what application language to use.

    It seems like ColdFusion would be the easiest to learn since it is tag based, but I a reading articles all over the web about how ColdFusion is dead... I figured before believing some blog I should ask the community of people who would know.

    I want to learn these things, not just copy/paste something into the site to include an add-on or a PayPal button, but I don't know where to start. Ruby? Perl? Why so many languages? Ones on rails and another is on wheels...

    I'm lost.
    I would love to get some opinions on this.
    Thanks you,
    AJ

  • #2
    Regular Coder ajhauser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Earlville. It's where Earls come from.
    Posts
    226
    Thanks
    74
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Wow sorry - I didn't realize that there was a sub-forum.

  • #3
    Regular Coder
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    NJ, USA
    Posts
    476
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 70 Times in 69 Posts
    ColdFusion is far from dead, lol. But unfortunately it's not quite as popular as say, php. I would say that ColdFusion is a lot easier to learn than php, especially if you're new to programming. You just have to make sure your host supports it. Some do, some don't.

    Because it is tag based, it does fit in very nicely with html code, and you can really do a lot with ColdFusion with a lot less effort than you can in other languages.

  • #4
    Regular Coder ajhauser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Earlville. It's where Earls come from.
    Posts
    226
    Thanks
    74
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Thanks very much for the response!
    Unfortunately, I did find out that my host does not support ColdFusion - bummer. I was looking forward to learning that.

    I would also ask though - all these newer languages like Ruby and Joomla (sp?) - are they all used for ESSENTIALLY the same thing?

    All I need to do is make a shopping cart and forms, etc... not that that has much to do with my question, just saying.

    Can you develop and display an entire site in one of these languages, or are they used with HTML and CSS, Javascript etc?

    Thanks!

  • #5
    Regular Coder ohgod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    579
    Thanks
    6
    Thanked 69 Times in 69 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by ajhauser View Post
    I would also ask though - all these newer languages like Ruby and Joomla (sp?) - are they all used for ESSENTIALLY the same thing?

    joomla is a CMS. it runs on php.


    so, you have a database. php will work with it via your code to build the html you want to display. of course css would be used for styling said html.

    so, php is the server side language for processing things. html and css would be the display. and if you want things looking nice then javascript is the client side language that will let you manipulate things on screen and make nifty effects. you tie it all together with things like ajax. with ajax your javascript effectively calls your php to do things in the background. then you can either update the page without refreshing for example or any other thing you please.

    suffice it to say you won't be designing a site in one language if you're thinking about a shopping cart.

  • #6
    Rockstar Coder
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    9,074
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 328 Times in 324 Posts
    ColdFusion isn't dead but it isn't very popular as said earlier. You would probably have a much harder time finding a host that offers support for it.

    It can be worth learning from a more legacy perspective since there are a fair number of older web apps written in it. But for new development, I wouldn't use it only because I don't like the syntax.
    OracleGuy

  • #7
    Regular Coder
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    NJ, USA
    Posts
    476
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 70 Times in 69 Posts
    Yes, ohgod is correct. Joomla is what's called a Content Management System (CMS), where you don't actually have to know any web programming language to put up content on the web. It will give you a text editor kind of like what you find in Microsoft Word so that you can format all your text, add images, colors, etc.

    When it comes down to it, HTML, CSS, and JavaScript are the only languages that a user's web browser actually understands. They are called the "client side" languages. HTML is used to format your webpage, CSS is used to style it, and JavaScript is used to create interactions with that webpage. An example of using JavaScript on a web page would be to validate a form. You could write JavaScript code to display a message to the user if say, an email field was not entered correctly, and then prevent the form from being submitted until the user fixes it.

    Php, ColdFusion, Ruby, etc, are what are called "server side" languages, as they live on your web server. They are used to process forms, interact with databases, store/retrieve persistent user data (user data that continues to exist between requests to web pages, such as shopping cart data), and other such things that cannot be done on the client side. The most important thing to remember is that when their processing is complete, they then create just a regular everyday HTML page to send back to the user.

    If you click View -> Page Source on your web browser when you are on a .php/.cfm/.asp page, you will notice that you have only received HTML (with possibly CSS and JavaScript) code from the server, as their actual php/CF/asp code was already handled at the server.


    So the best example I can give is your shopping cart actually. I'll use php in this example, but any server side language (CF, ruby, asp, etc) will do the same thing.

    A user wants to add a cart item, and clicks a link to a page called addCartItem.php. This page has the php code to store the item's name in your server's memory, which is tied to that user. It will then create an HTML page that has code to just say something along the lines of "Item added to cart successfully."

    So say that user has now added 3 items to their cart, and they click on a link for viewCart.php. That php page would have code to read the 3 items from the server's memory, and then create the appropriate HTML code to display each of them to the user.

    Hope that helps you understand all this a little better! Good luck.

    Greg

  • Users who have thanked Gjslick for this post:

    ajhauser (04-06-2009)

  • #8
    Regular Coder
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    NJ, USA
    Posts
    476
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 70 Times in 69 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by oracleguy View Post
    ColdFusion isn't dead but it isn't very popular as said earlier. You would probably have a much harder time finding a host that offers support for it.

    It can be worth learning from a more legacy perspective since there are a fair number of older web apps written in it. But for new development, I wouldn't use it only because I don't like the syntax.
    Oracle guy is n00b. Nah jk, haha IMO the syntax/functionality of the language is very straightforward (which was the original point of ColdFusion), and the fact that it's tag based lets it fit right in with HTML code. There is also a CFML scripting interface, which is C/Java syntax. You're probably referring to the comparison operators tho, where they had to make the compromise of using 'eq', 'gt', and 'lt' instead of ==, >, and <. The reason for that was because using '>' could be mistaken as an "end tag" token instead of the "greater than" operator.

    And whatcha talkin about "legacy apps"?! I'm currently developing quite a big system in ColdFusion

  • #9
    Senior Coder TheShaner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Orlando, FL
    Posts
    1,126
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 40 Times in 40 Posts
    I've written in ColdFusion before, and for me, it felt very cumbersome, but that's because I have a programming background. So, naturally for me, PHP was the easiest to pick up as it followed a lot of the same syntax and semantics you would find in a language like C or Java. If you don't have a programming background and are very familiar with HTML, ColdFusion will most likely come off as much easier.

    To be honest, ColdFusion IS dying. CF is proprietary and being as thus, it costs web hosts money to host it. Most companies out there prefer to SAVE money. With that being the case, why pay extra money to a web host to have CF when you can get it done in so many other server-side languages for much less the cost or free?

    However, this is a really good thing for CF developers! CF developers are much more in demand to maintain legacy systems written in CF since there aren't as many CF developers anymore, and PHP developers are a dime a dozen. This allows CF developers to raise their rates, and so they tend to make much more than PHP developers (on average) due to this demand.

    And Gjslick, more power to you for developing a CF system these days! It's definitely more rare, but I do know there are a lot of larger companies that still stick with the CF world they once remembered

    -Shane

  • #10
    Regular Coder
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    NJ, USA
    Posts
    476
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 70 Times in 69 Posts
    Shaner, you make some good points! You're right, unfortunately its proprietary nature and limited support for shared hosting environments does hold it back. I hope Adobe will address those issues in ColdFusion 9, with better support for shared hosting and possibly a free version for small-time, non commercial web hosting.

    However, there is in fact a free ColdFusion server available called Railo. http://www.getrailo.com (and apparently it's now open source, which I have just discovered by finding that link for you today! lol). As of now, it doesn't support absolutely everything that Adobe's ColdFusion server does, but I checked the list of unsupported features, and for all my years of CF development, I would only really miss one of them (which can be emulated anyway, I'd just have to actually spend time doing that ). One of my buddies uses it btw on his company's server, and he says it works great.

    But definitely a good point on the worth worth of CF developers nowadays. Didn't even think of that... lol. Now I get what oracleguy was talking about with legacy systems . I do hope one day that CF will become popular again! Maybe Railo can help some of that.

    Greg

  • #11
    Regular Coder ajhauser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Earlville. It's where Earls come from.
    Posts
    226
    Thanks
    74
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Thank you all for the excellent responses... I see that this is just a whole new can of worms. Being a designer, I want to dig into this but I a torn, and it seems like the advice to be great at one thing instead of mediocre at several things is ringing true right about now...

    However, I do want to gain at least a better understanding of server-side coding so I can ake validated forms etc. Actually, the main reason I was wondering this is for a specific job, and maybe a cart is not the best solution at all - I will explain in another post HERE.

    Again, thank you all for the excellent posts, this has really been helpful.

  • #12
    New to the CF scene
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    1
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Hi guys,
    For free CF use Open Blue Dragon. It works great.I was doing a lot of asp earlier-but MS changed everything inside out with ASP NET.CF is great easy fast and with the java base it rocks.

  • #13
    New Coder
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    16
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Kind of old thread, but what the heck...

    I've mostly into multimedia and graphics but I've dabbled in ColdFusion (CF) since Allaire owned it.

    1. Rumors of ColdFusion being dead have been around since day one. It's still here.

    2. For small to middle sized projects, I have always found CF to be quite easy to use and the syntax is simple and easy to understand. However, on larger projects it looks like CF really has fallen out of favor. Where I work the programming team has spent the last year rewriting our CF whole back end in .net.

    3. Hosting can be found, Crystaltech has a plan under $20 a month.

    4. If I knew nothing, I'd probably learn php. It's ugly, it's nasty, it's gross. It's also on almost every web server and I'd say it would be the most useful language to learn. It's not ideal though in a lot of ways, but it's very useful.

    I'm taking my own advice here, the last few months, I've been forcing myself to use php where maybe I used to use CF. I already feel somewhat more empowered due to php's ubiquity.

    I like CF, I just fear it's pretty niche unless you are looking to do a lot of stuff with other Adobe products like Flash, Flex and .pdf.

  • #14
    New Coder
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    16
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ajhauser View Post
    However, I do want to gain at least a better understanding of server-side coding so I can ake validated forms
    JavaScript can do a lot of this type of stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by ajhauser View Post
    Actually, the main reason I was wondering this is for a specific job, and maybe a cart is not the best solution at all
    Another advantage of php is the sheer amount of forums, code and open source projects out there. Seems like most CF people kind of hoard their knowledge, while more php people seem to share theirs.

  • #15
    Regular Coder
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    NJ, USA
    Posts
    476
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 70 Times in 69 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by snouter View Post
    2. For small to middle sized projects, I have always found CF to be quite easy to use and the syntax is simple and easy to understand. However, on larger projects it looks like CF really has fallen out of favor. Where I work the programming team has spent the last year rewriting our CF whole back end in .net.
    I think CF is great for all sized projects. I'm currently developing a very large, fully object oriented application in ColdFusion.

    Quote Originally Posted by snouter View Post
    4. If I knew nothing, I'd probably learn php. It's ugly, it's nasty, it's gross. It's also on almost every web server and I'd say it would be the most useful language to learn. It's not ideal though in a lot of ways, but it's very useful.

    I'm taking my own advice here, the last few months, I've been forcing myself to use php where maybe I used to use CF. I already feel somewhat more empowered due to php's ubiquity.
    Php really is ugly. Ugly, disorganized, and quirky. Trust me, I've worked with it plenty! So much so that if I have the choice, I pick ColdFusion over it every time in a heartbeat. The level of straightforwardness in application development with ColdFusion is just unbeatable.

    However, php is everywhere, and it's free... (Unless you use Railo or BlueDragon CF servers.)

    Quote Originally Posted by snouter View Post
    I like CF, I just fear it's pretty niche unless you are looking to do a lot of stuff with other Adobe products like Flash, Flex and .pdf.
    I use not one other Adobe product, save for the occasional export to pdf format.

    But just the ability to leverage any Java class is what really adds to ColdFusion's extensibility. I recently wrote an application that could build Excel files using Apache's POI Java library, which gave me the ability to write in features into the Excel files that are not available when you just create some html and treat it as an Excel file. However, there is actually native support for this ability now in ColdFusion 9 (I'm still running 8).
    Quote Originally Posted by snouter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ajhauser
    However, I do want to gain at least a better understanding of server-side coding so I can ake validated forms
    JavaScript can do a lot of this type of stuff.
    You always have to validate data on the server side, no matter what. Regular users can disable JavaScript, and more sinister users can post data around your JavaScript.
    Quote Originally Posted by snouter View Post
    Another advantage of php is the sheer amount of forums, code and open source projects out there. Seems like most CF people kind of hoard their knowledge, while more php people seem to share theirs.
    While it is true that there are a lot of php forums out there, I am subscribed to, and answer just about every question that's asked on this forum. Also, there are plenty of other resources, and in my 9 years of development, I have not once been left wondering about the answer to a question I may have had. And also at the time when I was really learning, there weren't half of the resources, forums, and blogs that there are now.

    -Greg
    Last edited by Gjslick; 01-12-2010 at 08:45 PM.


  •  

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •