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  1. #16
    $object->toCD-R(LP); vinyl-junkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drhowarddrfine
    You mean like ASP? Or VB6?
    What's your point? Classic ASP and VB6 are backward compatible with the latest version of .NET. So are (I think) latest versions of PHP, Java, etc. I'm not sure what you're getting at.
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  2. #17
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    Both have fallen out of favor with MS and they are moving on. My point is .NET is in favor until they find out it isn't so great after all. Or the money runs dry, in which case they move on to the next money machine.

  3. #18
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    Both have fallen out of favor because Microsoft brought something on board that was better than either of them - .NET. But again, so what? They're both compatible with .NET applications. I still don't get your point.
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  4. #19
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    You can use ASP techniques with ASP.net? You can use VB6 with .NET? I'll give you minor tweaks but are you telling me they can be used on .NET without change?

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by drhowarddrfine
    You can use ASP techniques with ASP.net? You can use VB6 with .NET? I'll give you minor tweaks but are you telling me they can be used on .NET without change?
    Yes, that's exactly what I'm telling you. That's what I was talking about when I said that .NET was backward compatible with them. I guess Microsoft is a bit smarter than you give them credit for, huh?
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  6. #21
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    Not at all. I've read that VB6 users are furious with MS for not supporting VB6 and that VB for .NET is totally different for them. Also, last I heard, ASP is significantly different than ASP.NET and they have to throw away many of the things they've learned over the years. That is why there are two boards here for posting to asp and asp.net. But you are telling me this isn't true?
    Last edited by drhowarddrfine; 03-20-2006 at 04:02 AM.

  7. #22
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    So it was Joel on Software where I think I first heard it since I kept the link.
    The first big win was making Visual Basic.NET not backwards-compatible with VB 6.0.
    And about how vb6 developers are "up in arms" but that's not really what I was looking for. Haven't looked for the ASP link yet.

    Wikipedia says:
    Even though ASP.NET takes its name from Microsoft's old web development technology, ASP, the two differ significantly.
    Also:
    VB.NET is a totally new tool from the ground up, not backwards compatible with VB6.
    Last edited by drhowarddrfine; 03-20-2006 at 04:02 AM.

  8. #23
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    Well, you're right about one thing. After a little Googling, I'll concede that there are *some* changes one has to make to their code to convert VB6 and classic ASP to .NET. However, you make it sound like developers have to totally rewrite their code when converting to .NET. Not true. In fact, pages such as this one would seem to suggest that there aren't that many coding changes that would need to be made. I can't speak from personal experience though. I did find what appears to be an interesting conversion tool, so it would appear that things are not as bleak as you would have us believe.

    I'm still trying to figure out where you're coming from on this whole thing. Are you one of those "I hate Microsoft" kind of guys so by extension, everything they do sucks in some way? Would you have them stand still while the rest of the world moves toward object oriented code? How do you think they should develop their software?
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  9. #24
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    Hey, I live near Rolla. I know people who went to Rolla. Don't trust people from Rolla.

    I'm not anti-MS though I agree I can come across as such. I was burned by this whole ASP.NET thing a while back and I almost got burned by IEs quirks, bugs and everything else we all complain about, so I have a bad taste in my mouth from such things. That isn't the cause of my complaints against MS as much as it opened my eyes and made me look at the big picture. While Microsoft has created some wonderful prodcuts, it frequently takes place to the detrement of the developer and the community at large.

    What I mean by detrement of the developer is the poor guys feeling he must run as fast as he can just to stay in one place. This constantly changing landscape is not created by new methods or technologies as much as it is created by an artificial need to continue to fill the coffers of MS. Yes, this is the job of any business, to make money and not the advancement of software and technology for the greater good unless that greater good makes greater money. I do not blame them for this but I do not have to like it.

    What I mean by the detrement of the community at large is by their not following the standards of the world community but force us to follow their flag, for good or for ill. It's OK to create new elements for browsers which do new things. It is not OK for IE to not follow those standards but, due to its almost forced use on the average user, we must create non-standard elements just for its use. With great power comes great responsibility and Microsoft shows none of that responsibility.

    As I mentioned elsewhere, Microsoft is a member of the web standards committee yet they are the least likely to follow standards web programming practices. This, as some would say, is one of the reasons MS is evil.

    Ignoring all that, while some may say I am anti-Microsoft because I point out the deficiencies of IE and the wonders of Firefox or Opera, you would probably find more people who are unaware and just as much a fan of Internet Explorer and wouldn't dream of touching FF. So I am like them but choose the other side.

  10. #25
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    Your days of complaining about IE may be coming to an end soon, if you believe what's in this newsletter. You might be complaining about having to take all those CSS hacks out of your code instead of putting them in.

    There is one inescapable fact about Microsoft though: They have the lion's share of the market, so like what they do or not, we all have to cater to them.
    Last edited by vinyl-junkie; 03-21-2006 at 12:09 PM. Reason: Left out the word "hacks." Changes the whole meaning of that sentence!
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  11. #26
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    Well what can I say!!

    I'm really pleased I started this thread I've listened to both sides of the discussion and have learnt a great deal. I have decided to follow the C# path whether it leads me up the garden or not however I am now more aware of certain pitfalls the .NET framework may have, and I will not be turning my back on other languages and skills.

    Thanks for all your comments, its been educational and fun.

  12. #27
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    You might be complaining about having to take all those CSS hacks out of your code instead of putting them in.
    You've brought up a major point. You don't use those hacks for IE7 but IE6 isn't disappearing for years to come. So you have to have one version of your page for IE6, one for IE7, one for the other IEs and, now get this ONE version for ALL other browsers. Why do we need three versions for Microsoft browsers but only one for everybody else? Yes, I know, I'm exaggerating a bit but not completely.

    Hey, QBall, quit butting into our discu....oh....sorry.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by drhowarddrfine
    Hey, QBall, quit butting into our discu....oh....sorry.
    That's funny!

    Sorry, Q. I know we highjacked your thread, and I must again apologize. You and I both can learn .NET and Visual Studio together, as I'm still very much a newbie at it.

    Dr. Howard, do I read your comments correctly? You're complaining because we'll have to put hacks in our CSS for IE6?! Gee, I thought you'd be happy that Microsoft is finally fixing some of those bugs that prompted us to put the hacks in there in the first place. Like Netscape 4 and others, we'll someday be able to drop those hacks and say we're not gonna support IE6 anymore!
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  14. #29
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    The only reason they were needed is because Microsoft didn't try and fix them for five years! Now hundreds of thousands of web sites are going to have to use both versions for years more! That's my gripe. If MS would learn how to produce a proper browser in the first place we wouldn't need hundreds of web sites discussing how to fix IE to make it work. It's like fiddling with rabbit ears on a television trying to make a page display in IE.

    So, great. IE7 will now bring Microsoft into 1998 as far as CSS goes.

  15. #30
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    Better late than never!
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