design theft

[themaxx]

Does anyone have any advice on what to do about design theft?

It has recently come to my attention that someone has completely ripped off my site design and code. i've attempted to send him an email and received no response. (He has no working contact link on his site so i'm merely guessing at his email address, but it didn't bounce so i can only assume he received it and is ignoring me.)

He even changed the copyright blip at the bottom. lol.

my site (http://themaxx.com/?layout=oldskool)

his site (http://www.vidyuthkini.com/)

Any advice?
Thanks in advance.

[whackaxe]

i did a whois on www.internic.net/whois/ which returned
---------------------
Domain Name: VIDYUTHKINI.COM
Registrar: ENOM, INC.
Whois Server: whois.enom.com
Referral URL: http://www.enom.com
Name Server: NS1.BLUEDOMINO.NET
Name Server: NS2.BLUEDOMINO.NET
Updated Date: 19-sep-2002
----------------------

then a whois on whois.enom.com

which returned the following page
http://www.enom.com/domains/WhoIs.asp?DomainName=vidyuthkini.com&submit.x=13&submit.y=10

as you can also see, his name servers are at the hosts www.bluedomino.com you should be able to report his abuse at

http://support.yourwebhosting.com/mailform/index.php?q=101&dept=13

hope you can sort him out qucikly. also put copyright on your page

[Nightfire]

Only way I know is to take them to court. A bit expensive though :(

[themaxx]

Thanks for the tip. I forgot to mention that I've sent an email to the compliance address on the ISP's site. I've recieved no response from them, either. I'm sending it again.

Thanks again.

[Borgtex]

visited the link in your design theft setcion (http://www.pirated-sites.com/)

It's amazing how people can rip of an entire design and then talk about "his" design. How did you discovered him? maybe is somebody of this or another forum? otherwise is like looking for a needle in a haystack

[doni]

Originally posted by Borgtex

We are the Borg, we will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Resistance is Futile. You WILL be assimilated


Kind of ironic to have a signature like that one on a thread like this.

:)

[doni]

Originally posted by Borgtex
visited the link in your design theft setcion (http://www.pirated-sites.com/)

It's amazing how people can rip of an entire design and then talk about "his" design. How did you discovered him? maybe is somebody of this or another forum? otherwise is like looking for a needle in a haystack

I'm kinda curious how you found out about him as well.

[themaxx]

i discovered it via my referrer logs.

[whackaxe]

if the ISP arent responding then you are pretty much done for unless you sue.

[Borgtex]

Originally posted by doni


Kind of ironic to have a signature like that one on a thread like this.

:)

lol :o

[ionsurge]

Oh my god they are identical... how stupid could that guy be?

lol (not evil laugh like muahahaha, but with amazement, ha!).

:D


Ionsurge.

[joh6nn]

my only advice, is to post a link to him, pointing out that he's stolen your layout, right down to the copyright. laugh about it. sincerest form of flattery, etc, etc. there's not much else you can do, having already tried to contact him, and his hosting provider. he's listed a phone number in his WhoIs information; you could call him, if it's that important to you ( be sure to take timezones into account, if you don't live in the UK ).

[doni]

When I went to the BlueDomino website, I found their terms of use at http://www.bluedomino.com/tos (http://www.bluedomino.com/tos/). This page includes an abuse link for reporting anyone who is abusing the TOS.

The following was taken from the TOS:

Illegality in any form
This includes but is not limited to; unauthorized distribution or copying of copyrighted material , violation of U.S. export restrictions, harassment, fraud, drug dealing, and other illegal activities. Any of the above will not be tolerated and will result in account suspension or deletion.

Also, the lookup page that was listed above gives the following as his email address. kiniv97@ic.ac.uk

One more thing--if you don't feel you're getting any assitance by sending BD email, go here (http://www.bluedomino.com/contact/) and use the "live chat" option to "chat" with one of their rep's one on one (the web site says the LC is available 24/7).

[redhead]

remember that you need to prove you made the file before he did... this can usually be done by going into the propities of your HTML file on your PC and going into Properties and taking a look at the "Created:" Date...

good luck with sorting that all out :thumbsup:

[ionsurge]

Yeah but that can be faked too redhead...



Ionsurge.

[whackaxe]

you can get programs from www.download.com that do that. personaly i would turn to illegal means

[mouse]

Cunning use of the CC:'s and FWD's is probably needed here. ;)

Email him stating your complaint politely but assertively, Cc: the mail to yourself, maybe to a friend too if you wish. See how/if he responds. Mail again and this time state you've also emailed the ISP/host, Cc: this email to yourself and then Forward it to him to let him know you're serious. If he replies negatively or abusively to any of the mails Forward it to his ISP/host and Cc: it to yourself, and a friend if you wish.

Now, realistically, you're not going to get any cash and chances are the host won't kick him off but by carbon copying and forwarding the emails all over the place you create a paper trail that should give you a certain high ground which should scare him into changing designs if nothing else.

Worst thing is he stole the design and added a slide in menu :eek:;)

[realisis]

redhead wrote:
(...) "by going into the propities of your HTML file on your PC and going into Properties (...)"

ionsurge wrote:
"Yeah but that can be faked too redhead... "

...

I'd think that in a case like this it would be more important to be able to prove the filedate of the file on your server, since this demonstrates from which date the file was (presumably) publicly accessible. Having an earlier file on your computer would be irrelevant: if that file had never been distributed, and nobody but the author had ever seen it, there would be no legal grounds for copyright theft.

In this regard, whenever I update pages, I keep copies of my original files on my server rather than overwrite them. At least that way, I have a baseline date as evidence.

My question is: can the filedate on the server be faked too? Anybody know?

...

PS: themaxx, I feel really bad for you. Hope you can nail the guy.

[ionsurge]

If I created a file on my server, I think I could alter the file date. It shouldn't be that hard to do.

Chances are that it is possible.

Let me try.



Ionsurge.

[jkd]

ssh myhost.com
touch filename

done. Not too difficult, if they are running *nix,

[ionsurge]

So I guess it is possible...

But if this guy couldn't think of his own design, I am presuming that he must be stupid, and therefore would not have the brains to do that. ;)



Ionsurge.

[whackaxe]

maybe hee could but was to lazy?

[ionsurge]

If you have the brains, unless you are retarded, you will make your own work to prevent some huge corporation from suing you to hell and back because you were too lazy to think of something that is your own.



Ionsurge.

[realisis]

jkd, I thought 'touch' could change the TIME of a file, but not the DATE. That spells trouble. Thanks for checking into it! (and also to ionsurge)

btw, themaxx, the guy hasn't locked down any of his folders either, the full contents are available for viewing, as well as the filedates. Might be some eidence there for you.

Well, you've got an ISP, an e-mail address, and his phone number too (iirc)? Wasn't there a thread here recently where some guy recounted getting the phone number of some hotlinker, and rigging up his fax machine to phone the guy incessantly for a whole 24-hour period? Not that I would recommend you actually do that, you understand (my lawyer made me add that in).

...

I do wonder if he's noticed an increase in traffic to his site in the last coupla days, and whether he's traced the referral to here. Best to copy link and paste into blank window in that case.

[murphyz]

You mentioned that you found out about the site from your referrals. Does this mean that he linked to you at one time or another, or just that he ripped your design straight to his server and then started changing stuff - which means clicking on a link in the work in progress stage may still have linked to you?

Mxx

[redhead]

Originally posted by ionsurge
Yeah but that can be faked too redhead...
[/B]indeed it can be...

i was implying that saying "he stole my site" isnt enough in most cases, and giving one out of many possible ways to check who had the file first...

sorry for any confusion there.

[Philip M]

If you know this guy's email address is
kinv97@ic.ac.uk
then that is the address of:-

Imperial College of Science, Technology and Medicine
University of London
Huxley Building, 180 Queen's Gate, London SW7 2BZ, UK.

This is a very respectable institution!

Try sending an email to webmaster@ic.ac.uk
setting out your complaint. It may be passed on to
the guy's boss or supervisor etc.

[ionsurge]

That was clever...


Ionsurge.

[bcarl314]

Not to be discouraging, but copyright is designed to stop others from "profiting" from your work. I can't say I see him trying to "profit" with this site, although I am little tired right now and may have missed something.

But, since they are not trying to profit, they pretty much have free reign. Trademarks are another issue, but I'm sure you haven't trademarked your site, so that's a mute point.

PS: Have you officially copyrighted your site with the Governement? Makes a BIG difference whether you copyrighted before of after you found this guy.

[realisis]

..."copyright is designed to stop others from "profiting" from your work. I can't say I see him trying to "profit" with this site, although I am little tired right now and may have missed something.

But, since they are not trying to profit, they pretty much have free reign. "

bcarl, I think the point you make is valid, insofar as it goes... what you're referring to is known as the "fair-use doctrine". But although current copyright law might allow someone to "quote" a work, or otherwise disseminate it (even without the author's knowledge or consent), the law is still aimed at protecting themaxx's right to be acknowledged as the author of the work and to receive full credit. What this guy is doing is pure unmitigated plagiarism - fair-use doesn't excuse or provide for that.

...

"Have you officially copyrighted your site with the Governement? Makes a BIG difference whether you copyrighted before of after you found this guy."

Well, although it helps to register one's authorship in the event of legal disputes, officially registering one's authorship is not legally required in order to establish a copyright... it just provides an objective date. Copyright is not something a government "gives" you - it's embodied in a work at the point of creation, the moment it's fixed into tangible form. If themaxx can otherwise establish that he had his design up way before the other guy did, then his copyright would be recognized (but what might come of it all is another issue entirely - if anything...)

[doni]

Originally posted by realisis
I do wonder if he's noticed an increase in traffic to his site in the last coupla days, and whether he's traced the referral to here. Best to copy link and paste into blank window in that case.

I'd think that it would be better to have him KNOW about this thread--he'd know that there are ALOT of people who know about him and what he's doing. Might be more effective.

[bcarl314]

Real-

Excellent points, however I think it is going to be impossible (or nearly impossible) for themaxx to prove he created the site first unless he copyrighted it "officially". Yes, all originally created work is copyrighted unpon creation, however the question, in court, would come down to "Who created this content first"

To prove this , the maxx and his alternate would probably need to submit ftp logs, and I doubt either would be able to produce them. (Unless they're really documenting things, in which case the copyright would have been filed already so the ftp logs would be moot)

Simply showing the file creation date would not be sufficient since this can be modified.

Also, if I were a judge, the other question I would ask is "Is this site significantly different?". Yes, they both have the same color scheme (not copyrightable) and a similar layout, but themaxx's opponanat could argue that he "significantly modified" or "was inspired by" themaxx's content and that he did not "copy" his work. It's amazing how little you need to change things to call it your own.

[zoobie]

Too true...The courts would have to decide just how much is "significant change" opening a whole new can of worms. :D

Btw...I went to his site and it looks like he's changed it a bit.
I've had this thing up for about two years now but have never been happy with it, so it's under construction again, for the last time I hope.

Also, I have my default color set on dark purple which really doesn't show up on a black background very well. You'd be best off assigning a contrasting color to your copyright. :p