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View Full Version : I just don't understand....



kaitco
06-12-2006, 03:37 PM
I have noticed a severe anti-Microsoft atmosphere at these forums....is there something I am missing? What is so wrong with Microsoft?

What difference does it make that IE is not "standards compliant?" For the lay user, as long as a browser delivers information, everything is fine, so why bother switching to a different browser?

If Microsoft is "evil," what are the alternatives and what makes them any better?

I simply cannot understand why there is so much fuss over Microsoft. I think people would be against any software creator as long as they held the largest market share. Am I wrong? If I am, why am I wrong? Someone please, help me understand why there is even an issue with a browser like IE and Microsoft in general....

NancyJ
06-12-2006, 04:08 PM
I have noticed a severe anti-Microsoft atmosphere at these forums....is there something I am missing? What is so wrong with Microsoft?


People dislike Microsoft for many different reasons, some are ignorant and dislike microsoft and Bill Gates purely because they are successful and have lots of money, they think Bill Gates is evil because he is rich - which is not the case at all, he gives an unimaginable amount of money to charity.
But there are some more informed and intelligent reasons to dislike them - they are undoubtably more powerful and influential (particularly over your standard 'home user') than any company should be allowed to be. They have a monopoly on the PC OS market.
They have questionable business practices, such as charging subscription fees for tech support on some of their products.
Like many large sucessful companies they overcharge for inferior products to increase profits and pay for marketting (eg. compared to open source/freeware solutions)
These are just some of the reasons to dislike microsoft.



What difference does it make that IE is not "standards compliant?" For the lay user, as long as a browser delivers information, everything is fine, so why bother switching to a different browser?

To the average user it doesnt make a blind bit of difference - to a web designer its a VERY big deal. Web standards are designed to make our lives easier and ensure that the websites we design and build work no matter what device & browser your user is using. Unfortunately, IE is not standards complient (or even close) but is the dominant browser for the home user. This costs companies millions on lost development time, having to implement 'ie hacks' because they want to build standards complient sites to 'future proof' them and to make them accessible for the 20 or so % of people who have turned away from IE.


If Microsoft is "evil," what are the alternatives and what makes them any better?

The alternatives are as varied as microsofts products, for nearly every single product they make there is an open source alternative.


I simply cannot understand why there is so much fuss over Microsoft. I think people would be against any software creator as long as they held the largest market share. Am I wrong? If I am, why am I wrong? Someone please, help me understand why there is even an issue with a browser like IE and Microsoft in general....

Yes they probably would. Any company that dominates the market the way microsoft do is inherintly bad for everyone, no competition means no incentive to improve. If alterative browsers like Firefox, Opera and Safari hadnt become so popular, I'm sure we wouldnt have seen such a push (particularly in the realm of standards complience) on IE 7.

rlemon
06-12-2006, 04:10 PM
read:

http://www.mag-murphy.net/ie/

http://channels.lockergnome.com/news/archives/20040615_why_you_should_dump_internet_explorer.phtml

http://news.softpedia.com/news/FireFox-better-than-IE-783.shtml

http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/wrongWithIE/

and thats just after a quick search. (also i'm too lazey to make my own argument right now)

rpgfan3233
06-12-2006, 04:22 PM
IE6 is not standards compliant. Because of this, Web coders are forced to use "hacks" to make their page work in compliant browsers. As a result, every time a Web coder uses a hack, they begin to detest MS (aka M$) even more. They realize that MS is only focused on making money and making sure their products are secure (to keep their customers and make more money). They are not worried enough standards compliance according to most Web coders. Besides, if it weren't for standards, we would still be seeing things like these:
Internet Explorer version - http://www.gatewaycontainer.com/images/Microsoft_ie.gif
Netscape version - http://www.elisabethsmith.co.uk/images/netscape.gif

Speaking of security, IE has a BIG security hole known as ActiveX. Innocent users have scripting enabled not knowing any better or thinking they are fine behind a router. However, ActiveX takes place on the client-side. The browser is fed the information and a hidden ActiveX control puts a worm on a user's PC. The worm fetches trojans, viruses or other forms of malware to invade someone's privacy, especially stealing passwords with a keylogger. ActiveX is not in most other stand-alone browsers.

If MS is "evil", alternatives are limitless, mainly due to the open source community.
Web Browser Alternatives:
Firefox (and any other Gecko browser)
Opera
Lynx (if you want to be SUPER-SAFE :p)


Micro$oft, M$ (Microsoft): used to emphasize Microsoft's business practices as being more focused on making money than producing good products. Microsoft was convicted under United States anti-trust law of taking unfair advantage of its monopoly position.
-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M$#.22.24.22_replacing_.22S.22.3B_.22.E2.82.AC.22_replacing_.22E.22.3B_.22.C2.A3.22_replacing_.22L.2 2

More info about why MS is often called M$ - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Microsoft

Those posts should be enough to get this started.

// Edit: I must admit that MS is getting better, though it might just be due to the threat of open source software.

jkd
06-12-2006, 04:31 PM
I would say the atmosphere is more anti-IE than anti-Microsoft, and you'll find that among most web developers nowadays. It wasn't always the case, since I remember pushing *hard* years ago for people at the forums to accept Mozilla and web standards as a good thing and to ditch the IE-only coding, but the momentum finally reached a critical point and exploded (for better or for worse). I dislike standards-zealots as much as I dislike IE-zealots, and unfortunately it seems there are more of the former now.

Browsers are a web developer's tool, and the core reason I think so many people are anti-IE is simply that IE is a terrible tool when compared to the others. Not to say that it's hopeless - in the hands of a knowledgable developer, most of its shortcomings can be worked around, however the working around itself is also cause for dislike, since no one wants 1996 again when you have 2 or 3 code forks for every little piece of code you write.

kaitco
06-12-2006, 04:41 PM
The alternatives are as varied as microsofts products, for nearly every single product they make there is an open source alternative.



// Edit: I must admit that MS is getting better, though it might just be due to the threat of open source software.

What is open source software?

Beagle
06-12-2006, 04:46 PM
I think that most complaints about microsoft stem from the fact that they earned their marketshare through incredible (And questionable) business practices instead of on the merit of their product, which happens all too often in the real world.

It's a fact of business that businessmen are usually more successful than craftsmen, simply because they understand business. That's what happened with Microsoft. Instead of making good products, they made good business deals. They got their software in the right hands at the right time and made some nasty contracts while they had the chance, and now instead of people choosing microsoft products, they're pretty much forced onto us.

I use OpenOffice.org instead of MS Office, but when I have to send out resumes, and someone asks me for a word document, I make it a point to find a computer with MS Word on it because I need ensure the best possible impression on the person requesting my resume. If MS employed open-standards and didn't try to squeeze everyone out of the arena, then I wouldn't be so pissed, but instead, I am forced to use an MS product for anyone else who uses an MS product to see my work as I intend.

The fact that they conciously created these problems, and competely disregard them as problems is what pisses me off. They aren't trying to help the customer, they're trying to hurt competitors. That is not how consumers want to be served.

If you went to a restaurant that was run that way, instead of getting a great meal and great service, you'd get a restaurant that regularly upped the amount of salt (or MSG or whatever flavor enhancer or addictive drug) used in your meals so that you'd get slowly used to it, and when you went to eat at other places, the food would be blander, relatively speaking, because you're used to so much salt. Wouldn't you rather go to a place that just made good food instead of made good money?

Same thing for software.

Beagle
06-12-2006, 04:46 PM
What is open source software?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-source_software

Get in the know.

rpgfan3233
06-12-2006, 04:57 PM
BTW, a good open source alternative to the expensive MS Office suite is OpenOffice.org (see my sig below). Also (for those who still don't know), MS released Office 2007 Beta 2 to the public: http://www.microsoft.com/office/preview/default.mspx

I like the LAF (look and feel) of MSO 2007, but beyond that, it just doesn't work for me. On the plus side, that annoying "Task Pane" is gone for good. I've had to reinstall Office several times and the default is that the Task Pane is open for all applications. You have to open each application and edit the options to not show the Task Pane (IIRC there is also a checkbox at the bottom of the Task Pane that allows you to not show it again. . .). I'm glad it is gone.

oracleguy
06-12-2006, 06:19 PM
I would say the atmosphere is more anti-IE than anti-Microsoft, and you'll find that among most web developers nowadays.

I agree.


If alterative browsers like Firefox, Opera and Safari hadnt become so popular, I'm sure we wouldnt have seen such a push (particularly in the realm of standards complience) on IE 7.

Yep, in fact there might not of even been an IE7 if they hadn't really felt the need to get into the 21st century with all the popular features that alternative browsers have (imo).

rpgfan3233
06-12-2006, 06:28 PM
Yep, in fact there might not of even been an IE7 if they hadn't really felt the need to get into the 21st century with all the popular features that alternative browsers have (imo).
tabbed browsing to reduce memory strain anybody? :p

ArcticFox
06-19-2006, 03:31 AM
Bill Gates is my Daddy! :D

rpgfan3233
06-19-2006, 03:35 AM
Bill Gates is my Daddy! :D
Well, Go Daddy is my Daddy! :p

Blind Zero
06-19-2006, 07:49 AM
My only issue with Microsoft (and it is a small one) is that I often feel as if I spend more time installing updates, patches, and fixes to XP than actually enjoying my PC.



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