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View Full Version : Agressive FireFox advertisement.



marek_mar
06-06-2006, 10:33 PM
I came across the this site http://www.explorerdestroyer.com and I was amazed. I wondered if people would approve this. Do you?

VIPStephan
06-06-2006, 10:57 PM
Well... while it's generally not a bad intent to make people switch to a different browser I don't like to force people to do something they might not want. That's not better than what Microsoft is doing in a more or less subtle way. And also using the latter two methods proposed on this website is throwing us back into the years of "This browser is optimized for Internet Explorer 3/Netscape Navigator 4 and might not display properly in other browsers. Click here to download IE/NN".
There's nothing wrong with showing your support or sympathy for Firefox but it shouldn't be as aggressive as the last two examples (plus it could make people avoid the website that has it if they find themselves somewhere else than the wanted to get or are annoyed by repeating demands.

In a nutshell: I'd not want to see Mozilla/Firefox to condescend to Microsoft...

But that's just my 0.02$. :)

marek_mar
06-07-2006, 11:40 AM
Well... while it's generally not a bad intent to make people switch to a different browser...
make them switch to the one and only correct browser you mean? Microsoft doesn't really force their browser or other programs on to you. They just add them to windows and think that most will be too lazy to try and find an alternative (which is quite true).

Something interesting though is that in Gemany you can get paid for the "Dead serious/Todernst" option.

gsnedders
06-07-2006, 12:08 PM
make them switch to the one and only correct browser you mean?
Firefox is not the only standards compliant browser.

NancyJ
06-07-2006, 12:40 PM
no browser is 100% standards compliant.

I'm sure this site is a scam, I dont think even in the US this would be 'fair competition'

marek_mar
06-07-2006, 01:09 PM
Firefox is not the only standards compliant browser.
Don't tell that to me tell it to them. You have only one choice on these notifications.

VIPStephan
06-07-2006, 01:46 PM
I'm more of an objective kind of person and I'd rather have a notice that IE users shouldn't use IE anymore and switch to a different browser of their choice, not just Firefox. While Fx is my primary browser I think Opera is a good browser too and I like Safari... and even IE 5 for Mac is better than IE 6 for win. :D

felgall
06-07-2006, 10:16 PM
and even IE 5 for Mac is better than IE 6 for win. :D

And Microsoft officially killed off IE on the Mac completely in 2003. Perhaps they were trying to tell us something then about how they didn't care about web browsers any more.

The only reason they are developing IE7 is because of the 600+ security holes in IE6 that couldn't be patched any other way.

drhowarddrfine
06-08-2006, 04:41 AM
That is NOT an advertisement by Firefox. It's 'some guy' that put that page up some months ago on his own.

Firefox is not 100% compliant but it is, by far, the most compliant browser along with Opera.

rpgfan3233
06-08-2006, 05:55 AM
no browser is 100% standards compliant.
Of course not. AFAIK, MathML and SVG aren't completely implemented in any form. Also, there is the Acid2 Test (http://www.webstandards.org/files/acid2/test.html), which tests CSS compliance.
Firefox and Opera are the most standards-compliant browsers that I've seen.

evo
06-08-2006, 08:02 AM
The latest version of Opera (v9) does pass the Acid2 Test if I recall correctly.

missing-score
06-08-2006, 08:23 AM
In my opinion, free choice is more important than improving your users browser... I know people who choose to use IE after trying firefox, opera and netscape becuase they prefer it... I can't for the life of me see why, but they do, and its their choice.

I think doing this is worse than the way Microsoft pushes IE on soem of its sites. At least they are now starting to consider other browsers.

gsnedders
06-08-2006, 12:44 PM
Also, there is the Acid2 Test (http://www.webstandards.org/files/acid2/test.html), which tests CSS compliance.
Firefox and Opera are the most standards-compliant browsers that I've seen.Firefox fails the test, whereas Safari, Konqueror and Prince have got official releases that pass. iCab and Opera have public development builds that also pass.


And Microsoft officially killed off IE on the Mac completely in 2003. Perhaps they were trying to tell us something then about how they didn't care about web browsers any more.
Tasman, the rendering engine in IE5/Mac, Office: mac, and MSN for OS X, has actually continued to be developed after IE5/Mac was discontinued, and has publicly been shown off several times having reached version 1.0, although none of those products have shipped. It supports, among others, CSS 2.1, CSS3 selectors and XHTML served as application/xhtml+xml.

brothercake
06-08-2006, 01:34 PM
Tasman, the rendering engine in IE5/Mac, Office: mac, and MSN for OS X, has actually continued to be developed after IE5/Mac was discontinued, and has publicly been shown off several times having reached version 1.0, although none of those products have shipped. It supports, among others, CSS 2.1, CSS3 selectors and XHTML served as application/xhtml+xml.
had continued - past tense - MSN for OSX was killed off in May 2005

gsnedders
06-08-2006, 05:00 PM
had continued - past tense - MSN for OSX was killed off in May 2005
Tasman is still developed, even though the only product that uses it is Office: mac (where it would probably be sensible to start to consider moving over to WebCore).

Bipolar_joe
06-22-2006, 12:34 PM
That is NOT an advertisement by Firefox. It's 'some guy' that put that page up some months ago on his own.

Yup. I found these. The firefox site is registered under this guys name.

http://wiki.freeculture.org/index.php/Holmes_Wilson_of_Downhil_Battle

http://www.techweb.com/wire/software/173601242

DELOCH
06-23-2006, 05:30 AM
I would like to state that FireFox is the worst browser I came along with because of it's speed and limitations and dispayment

1) Firefox does not support activeX
2) Harder to download with firefox
3) Firefox is too slow
4) Firefox is sad because it is overadvertised and too limited
5) For the love of god can someone please tell me that browsers are made to browse not to go to a beuty pageant which firefox is
6) How is it safer to download virus.exe from firefox than internet explorer
7) Overmade, browsers are made to browse the web, not to ad 5000 addons to play W.O.W, go to MSN, Yahoo, AOL, and IRC at the same time!
8) Name wrong: No one knows what is Firefox, for all they know it is a virusfox or animals on fire.
9) Why would you want to spread firefox when you have Internet Explorer?
10) If you cut the wheels off a car it will not get stolen(firefox), but it will not be able to drive either(firefox) by this I mean:
many people on web use ASP, VBScript, ActiveX and such, those are not always dangerous, but a lot of websites use it as an essential part of them... without ASP forms will not be submitted because Firefox has no idea what ASP(VB) is...
11) Not for avarage user(too complicated for them)
12) Microsoft got their money for IE long time ago, they could'nt care less if you use IE or not, they did not make IE7 for firefox, they made it to continue the line and they carefully noticed some stuff of Firefox that could be used like tabs
13) I hate tabs(being honest)
14) I use antivirus 3 times a day, and popup-blocker(pop-oops) 23/7 eliminating the need for firefox
15) I personally do not like to be insulted, I could easily make a webpage with

<script type="text/vbscript">
insert insults not seen by firefox
</script>
and you would not know that people are laughing behind your back.

16) 30% of websites use ActiveX, 40% of websites use Active Scripting, 20% use flash, 10% use java, and 80% of people use Internet Explorer

17) Open source? how can you not open the source code with IE6 and not see the source
18) Firefox ruined IE7 by making it have tabs
19) Firefox is based on Netscape which died to IE, IE will kill it again no matter how far it gets
20) reminder: Firefox is the old Bon-Echo
21) The websites I make look good in IE and awful in FF

This is just my opinitions, do not substitute my opinions for yours and do not complain for I do use IE6, and will use IE6 for the rest of my life.
plus, i do have firefox and use it 0.5% of time so I can view websites some really stupid peopel set up to prevent IE users to enter

and most important

People have a chice, some people like tabs some do not
some people use ActiveX some do not
some people download some do not
some people are scared of firefox some are not
some people hate FF some people love FF
some people have oranges for breakfast, and some have apples

what is the difference between rock and the same rock upside down?
nothing!

I will fight my life to remind that to everyone there is no browser wars, IE won a long time ago and MS got their money for it already...

If firefox is newer, it does not mean it is the best!

and I end my comment :D

_Aerospace_Eng_
06-23-2006, 07:11 AM
I would like to state that FireFox is the worst browser I came along with because of it's speed and limitations and dispayment

1) Firefox does not support activeX
2) Harder to download with firefox
3) Firefox is too slow
4) Firefox is sad because it is overadvertised and too limited
5) For the love of god can someone please tell me that browsers are made to browse not to go to a beuty pageant which firefox is
6) How is it safer to download virus.exe from firefox than internet explorer
7) Overmade, browsers are made to browse the web, not to ad 5000 addons to play W.O.W, go to MSN, Yahoo, AOL, and IRC at the same time!
8) Name wrong: No one knows what is Firefox, for all they know it is a virusfox or animals on fire.
9) Why would you want to spread firefox when you have Internet Explorer?
10) If you cut the wheels off a car it will not get stolen(firefox), but it will not be able to drive either(firefox) by this I mean:
many people on web use ASP, VBScript, ActiveX and such, those are not always dangerous, but a lot of websites use it as an essential part of them... without ASP forms will not be submitted because Firefox has no idea what ASP(VB) is...
11) Not for avarage user(too complicated for them)
12) Microsoft got their money for IE long time ago, they could'nt care less if you use IE or not, they did not make IE7 for firefox, they made it to continue the line and they carefully noticed some stuff of Firefox that could be used like tabs
13) I hate tabs(being honest)
14) I use antivirus 3 times a day, and popup-blocker(pop-oops) 23/7 eliminating the need for firefox
15) I personally do not like to be insulted, I could easily make a webpage with

<script type="text/vbscript">
insert insults not seen by firefox
</script>
and you would not know that people are laughing behind your back.

16) 30% of websites use ActiveX, 40% of websites use Active Scripting, 20% use flash, 10% use java, and 80% of people use Internet Explorer

17) Open source? how can you not open the source code with IE6 and not see the source
18) Firefox ruined IE7 by making it have tabs
19) Firefox is based on Netscape which died to IE, IE will kill it again no matter how far it gets
20) reminder: Firefox is the old Bon-Echo
21) The websites I make look good in IE and awful in FF

This is just my opinitions, do not substitute my opinions for yours and do not complain for I do use IE6, and will use IE6 for the rest of my life.
plus, i do have firefox and use it 0.5% of time so I can view websites some really stupid peopel set up to prevent IE users to enter

and most important

People have a chice, some people like tabs some do not
some people use ActiveX some do not
some people download some do not
some people are scared of firefox some are not
some people hate FF some people love FF
some people have oranges for breakfast, and some have apples

what is the difference between rock and the same rock upside down?
nothing!

I will fight my life to remind that to everyone there is no browser wars, IE won a long time ago and MS got their money for it already...

If firefox is newer, it does not mean it is the best!

and I end my comment :D
<rant>

You are right, it doesn't support ActiveX by default but this can be installed. Reason its not installed already is because there are people who can and do use activex malicously.
How? It keeps all of your download in a little window, allowing to save, open, and it even gives you the option to do the same things automatically with files you choose.
I'll give you this one, but only when it starts up but there are tweaks you can make so your browsing is faster.
If you understand your browser then its not limited, I'm sure there are a lot of things you don't know about Firefox like its on the fly about:config which allows you to change whatever you want.
Not sure what you mean by this, if you mean by themes and what not, I think that is a great feature. It blends in with my desktop.
Granted its probably not but FF can't open exes directly in the browser, they need to be saved to your system before you can open them.
And that is what I do. There are some extensions that do do what you say but I don't find the need for them. As a developer there are many great extensions for development in Firefox. Like the Edit CSS extension make changes to the CSS locally to view what happens in the browser on the fly, the web developer extension used for viewing coding information about the page
If you look at there logo, its just a fox that appears to have flames coming from it.
Sure I do use IE for some things but not my everyday browsing. I don't like IE too much when it comes to web standards.
You may be right about this. I don't use asp.
How? My whole family uses it and they have caught on well. To them its just a browser. As long as it gets the job done more safely than IE.
Microsoft got their money from Windows, not IE. IE usually comes bundled with windows anyways.
I love tabs. It clears up clutter on your taskbar. Rather than having 4 or 5 IE windows open, you can have one firefox window open and 4 or 5 tabs.
Same here, except I use Firefox's built in popup blocker. Up until service pack 1 or 2 came along IE had no built in popup blocker.
How are you being insulted? By people saying IE sucks because it doesn't support web standards and it has many security issues? These things are true. How many times has MS released an update because of a security issue in IE?
Active X can be useful but isn't always necessary. Firefox supports most active scripting, java, and flash. IE can't even support an application/xhtml+xml mimetype. It tries to download it. Opera and Firefox both understand the mimetype.
I don't think you understand what open source means. Open source means the code used to compile the actual browser is available to anyone who wants it free of charge allowing them to modify it any way they wish.
That is your opinion. MS saw that tabs were popular and useful. Both Opera and Firefox have tabs.
I don't think IE is going to kill anything. The rendering engine for Firefox is far better than IE.
ok.
There is a reason for this, chances are your coding is bad. If you can't make a valid website and not having it look the same in both IE and FF then maybe web design isn't for you.

Those are my opinions about your opinions. I'm not telling you to use Firefox as I can't control your life. I'm just telling you the parts you seem to not understand.
</rant>

raf
06-23-2006, 07:38 AM
17) Open source? how can you not open the source code with IE6 and not see the source

seems to me that you and IE are a perfect match :rolleyes:

i don't mind what browser you or anyone else uses, but it might be a good idea to read up on the browser-debate and get the facts before you voice your opinion.

hardly any tech-savy people will consider IE to be the best browser, and most IE users simply don't care about what broser they use. which is reason enough for me to not take part in the debate.

Bipolar_joe
06-23-2006, 09:10 AM
seems to me that you and IE are a perfect match :rolleyes:
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!

hardly any tech-savy people will consider IE to be the best browser, and most IE users simply don't care about what broser they use. which is reason enough for me to not take part in the debate.
Fair point. My Father used IE for years, up until arounf October last year. He just did it because he didn't know he had other options.

Masterslave
06-23-2006, 09:14 AM
First of all, it's Firefox not FireFox, please rember guys. My name is Masterslave not MasterSlave...

@DELOCH:

I thought you are making a joke but you're serious eh?
I think you missing the goal abot the 'browser war'. but that's a long discussion and my English is not that good to discuss that.



2) Harder to download with firefox
Ehhhh, explain to me.

3) Firefox is too slow
Ehhhh not at my system

4) Firefox is sad because it is overadvertised and too limited
Too limited, is that a joke?

6) How is it safer to download virus.exe from firefox than internet explorer
That is user input the broser cant help if you're downloaden a virus when you click on it

7) Overmade, browsers are made to browse the web, not to ad 5000 addons to play W.O.W, go to MSN, Yahoo, AOL, and IRC at the same time!
It think you're missing the point, extensions are used too improve Firefox. If you choose to open MSN, Yahoo, AOL etc, it's your choice

8) Name wrong: No one knows what is Firefox, for all they know it is a virusfox or animals on fire.
Not true, in the newspaper in Holland (where I live) Firefox is published in some article.

9) Why would you want to spread firefox when you have Internet Explorer?
Because IE stinks, worse CSS, DOM model, security issues.
Recently I had make a menu, and I doesn't read the height propperly...
It's time to wake up!

11) Not for avarage user(too complicated for them)
Hahaha that's funny!! Have you ever seen te advanced tab in IE?:rolleyes:

17) Open source? how can you not open the source code with IE6 and not see the source
......

18) Firefox ruined IE7 by making it have tabs
ehhh, monkey see monkey, typically MS

19) Firefox is based on Netscape which died to IE, IE will kill it again no matter how far it gets
NS isn't dead because IE, read the stories at the web.
NS WAS bigger than IE

21) The websites I make look good in IE and awful in FF
Why can I do and you don't?

NO flame but I dont agree with you at all.
This are my $0.02:thumbsup:

missing-score
06-23-2006, 07:20 PM
I dont agree either, on my system firefox is Waay faster and i haven't come across any website yet that doesn't render properly where it does in IE. Firefox quite simply is more secure.

However to back up what I have said before, I belive if you really detest Firefox so much you should stick to what you like, and I wouldn't want my website to be impossible for you to view.

Assuming you are not joking, you have shown my point that just becuase Firefox IS much better, it doesn't mean everyone will prefer it. I know others who have tried Firefox and didn't like it, so stick with IE. Its "sad but true" (any Metallica fans? I never knew they wrote that song about the browser war).

rpgfan3233
06-23-2006, 07:37 PM
I don't own a Mac, but last time I heard, Camino was faster than Firefox. Is this still true?

TheShaner
06-23-2006, 08:48 PM
I really didn't find the site offensive in any way. They're offering a script for website owners and businesses to CHOOSE to advertise FF and possibly make their site inaccessible to IE users. You choose to run your website any way you would like. I can create a script that doesn't allow people with 666 in their IP address cuz I think they may be the spawn of Satan. It's my site and it's perfectly fair. Will my site lose visitors? Will I see a diminish in revenue? Most likely. Are these websites willing to take a hit in their returns for forcing FF? A $1 for each referral is most likely not going to make up their losses that they may experience for excluding 70% (+- 10% depending on their target audience) of their clientele.

If a website told me I had to change from my current browser (which happens to be FF), I'd find a similar site and browse that one instead, lol. They lost a customer and some other website just made one for not discriminating against my browser preference.

There are going to be zealots from both sides with their own methods of promoting their browser of choice, their website of choice, their credit card of choice, their hamburger of choice, etc. It's life and we, the consumer, either say "Sounds good" or "Screw them". So I say good luck with their campaign. Both of their sites were at least entertaining, lol.

-Shane

DELOCH
06-23-2006, 09:27 PM
no seriosly look: http://www.freewebs.com/coding-zone from both IE and FF

firefox makes it harder to download by making it download to the desktop

activeX is a powerful object but who in the right mind would say ok to activeX webpage? I use ActiveX to use VBScript and VB on web, not to create applications online

lol, webstandards... you must be joking... IE displays XHTML far better than HTML and XML is fully supported and as well as XHTML to me is basic HTML with XML syntax...

I see no web standards... and no advantages to use FF

see the website and check yourself

nytrokiss
06-23-2006, 09:34 PM
Well there is this new exploit and it only hit's IE because they did the right thing and listoned to the RFC well thats intersting!

TheShaner
06-23-2006, 09:52 PM
no seriosly look: http://www.freewebs.com/coding-zone from both IE and FF

First, i looked at your website in both browsers and they're the same in both. Your website isn't even done except for your coding skills, so it looks to me like you're just marketing yourself here.


firefox makes it harder to download by making it download to the desktop

You don't have to have it automatically download to your desktop. You can specify any location or make it prompt you for a location (go to Tools->Options->Downloads). Learn how to use Firefox before attempting to criticize the browser.


activeX is a powerful object but who in the right mind would say ok to activeX webpage? I use ActiveX to use VBScript and VB on web, not to create applications online

Ok, here you just asked why anyone would use an aciveX webpage. I think you mean "who in their right mind would say NO to activeX webpage". Well, someone who doesn't feel secure with activeX accessing their computer. Then you say that you use ActiveX for VBScript and VB on the web, which would be for creating an application online. However, you totally throw me through a loop with saying it's not for online applications. I'm guessing this whole paragraph is messed up due to English not being your native language, so I won't comment anymore on this.


lol, webstandards... you must be joking... IE displays XHTML far better than HTML and XML is fully supported and as well as XHTML to me is basic HTML with XML syntax...

I see no web standards... and no advantages to use FF

Ok, please don't talk about topics that you're not familiar with. IE displays XHTML far better than HTML? That doesn't even make sense, lol. The debate here is how well Firefox and IE render and display the different web technologies. IE is way behind the times in terms of CSS compliance, to name one. As for XML, what they were saying before is that an XML page will not display in IE's browser. It doesn't understand that MIME type; Whereas Firefox, Opera, and other browsers display it.


see the website and check yourself
Promoting yourself again because there's nothing to see on your website.

Please learn your topics before debating them.

-Shane

DELOCH
06-23-2006, 10:18 PM
I repeat this ones and again

My website looks off on IE

and, i use ActiveX

XML works fine as well as HTML

and what is XHTML except for HTML in the syntax of XML

and... I never had a problem with CSS before :\

jkd
06-23-2006, 10:33 PM
I'm going to go out on a limb here (and not be a good super moderator), but DELOCH: honestly, you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to markup, scripting, and it seems client-side web development in general. Firefox is not the best thing since sliced bread, but that's not motivation to rally back for IE with outright lies (no implication on your intent though, it might be honest confusion) and misinformation.

These forums are an open place for discussion, but you really should get your facts straight.

rpgfan3233
06-23-2006, 11:31 PM
IE sucks now. It was fine back when it was shiny and new and halfway conforming. Now it is a browser that requires a bunch of hacks to keep up with standards (which often causes problems on IE5/Mac, which people still use to this day, so that requires hacks). To see what I mean, check out the IE bugs at http://www.positioniseverything.net/explorer.html

Some other browser-specific bugs:
Opera bugs - http://www.positioniseverything.net/op-omnibus.html
Gecko bugs (all the ones on that page were fixed as of fx 1.0) - http://www.positioniseverything.net/gecko.html

jkd
06-24-2006, 01:43 AM
Let's move back onto topic now. That is, anything actually related the site mentioned in the first post.

missing-score
06-24-2006, 03:32 AM
I really didn't find the site offensive in any way. They're offering a script for website owners and businesses to CHOOSE to advertise FF and possibly make their site inaccessible to IE users. You choose to run your website any way you would like. I can create a script that doesn't allow people with 666 in their IP address cuz I think they may be the spawn of Satan. It's my site and it's perfectly fair. Will my site lose visitors? Will I see a diminish in revenue? Most likely. Are these websites willing to take a hit in their returns for forcing FF? A $1 for each referral is most likely not going to make up their losses that they may experience for excluding 70% (+- 10% depending on their target audience) of their clientele.

If a website told me I had to change from my current browser (which happens to be FF), I'd find a similar site and browse that one instead, lol. They lost a customer and some other website just made one for not discriminating against my browser preference.

There are going to be zealots from both sides with their own methods of promoting their browser of choice, their website of choice, their credit card of choice, their hamburger of choice, etc. It's life and we, the consumer, either say "Sounds good" or "Screw them". So I say good luck with their campaign. Both of their sites were at least entertaining, lol.

-Shane

I definatley don't find the site offensive... Heck, it could really help make the majority more secure online... but for myself at least, I wouldn't want to block IE users becuase of their browser. I'm very much for free choice, so in the same way, I wouldn't want to try and stop someone who wanted to make their own website accessible to FF only, or to IE only... Although I would advise them against it.

VIPStephan
06-25-2006, 08:02 PM
[...]I wouldn't want to block IE users becuase of their browser.
Yeah, that would be the same as in the Southern United States back in the '50s where it said "Whites only".


First of all, it's Firefox not FireFox
Right, and I read on some Firefox page that the officially accepted abbreviation for Firefox is Fx, not FF.

ArcticFox
06-26-2006, 04:21 AM
Sheesh! A site that lets only one browser in - and you guys aren't ripping this a new one?!

WTF? Then, how DARE YOU give me any blab about designing my site to be IE/Win only! Makes me want to go right now and put back the simple little code that will keep all of you non-IE users (.93% of my visitors) comletely off of my site! You don't care? Neither will I.

If you're going to bash me about putting up my wall, then you must act in the same manner for this rubbish. Same damn wall; just looking at it from your yard doesn't change a thing.

TheShaner
06-26-2006, 04:40 AM
Sheesh! A site that lets only one browser in - and you guys aren't ripping this a new one?!

WTF? Then, how DARE YOU give me any blab about designing my site to be IE/Win only! Makes me want to go right now and put back the simple little code that will keep all of you non-IE users (.93% of my visitors) comletely off of my site! You don't care? Neither will I.

If you're going to bash me about putting up my wall, then you must act in the same manner for this rubbish. Same damn wall; just looking at it from your yard doesn't change a thing.
Actually, the site isn't blocking IE users at all. They're just offering a script to allow other websites to advertise Fx and possibly block IE users. If you read my rant, then I explain why I don't see it a problem.

As for people bashing you for your site being IE only, they're doing it for your own good. It limits your audience. However, if you really want to do that, it's your choice. By all means, block non-IE users. You're really the only one it hurts (unless you're not looking to make a business on your site).

As for your wall analogy, it's a bit off. The Fx wall is like an immunity wall set up to block out "bugs", while an IE-only wall is like a wall to keep those "bugs" in, lol. J/K... sort of, haha. I just support better web standards and any browser that does that is a good browser to use (which happens to be pretty much any browser but IE, lol).

Anyway, my point is/was that I believe you can block whoever you want from your site. IE-only, Fx-only, Opera-only, Shane's Non-Existant Browser-only, w/e... It's your site. You just better not complain when no one's visiting it, lol.

-Shane

DELOCH
06-26-2006, 04:56 AM
actually making a site IE only has good reasons sometimes: I can list sime:

1) the use of VBScript
2) the use of ActiveX
3) the use of VML(vector markup language)

but here are some bad reasons:

1) I hate firefox
2) I do not support firefox
3) etc

seriously, are you going to use firefox to view activeX? firefox is 100 years behind activeX, VBscript, and VML, i find them ok and they are not harmful because that make a popup (warning this site contains dangerous activeX controls would you like to continue?) and if you say yes you are pretty stupid since a lot of activeX is dangerous, but in terms of checking your own activeX it is ok, plus VBScript is as safe as Javascript... if you are scared of javascript why be scared of VBscript? VBScript is the same scenario script...

anyways, i pointed out my point...

note: there are only two browsers in the world at this time: Netscape(including Opera, Firefox) and Internet explorer(including custom browsers made on Visual studios) so if you are using FF, then it is going to say: you are using Netscape, if you use Shane browser, it will say you are using Microsoft Internet Explorer

_Aerospace_Eng_
06-26-2006, 05:37 AM
seriously, are you going to use firefox to view activeX? firefox is 100 years behind activeX, VBscript, and VML, i find them ok and they are not harmful because that make a popup (warning this site contains dangerous activeX controls would you like to continue?) and if you say yes you are pretty stupid since a lot of activeX is dangerous, but in terms of checking your own activeX it is ok, plus VBScript is as safe as Javascript... if you are scared of javascript why be scared of VBscript? VBScript is the same scenario script...

anyways, i pointed out my point...

note: there are only two browsers in the world at this time: Netscape(including Opera, Firefox) and Internet explorer(including custom browsers made on Visual studios) so if you are using FF, then it is going to say: you are using Netscape, if you use Shane browser, it will say you are using Microsoft Internet Explorer
Guess you missed it when I said ActiveX CAN be installed in Firefox by the user. Opera isn't netscape. Umm there are more than just those browsers. You have Safari, Icab, Konqueror, Kmeleon, Firefox, Opera, Netscape, Mozilla. A list of more browsers that exist here (http://browsers.evolt.org/). I'm not sure where you get the idea of Firefox alerting netscape. Sure some javascript will see Firefox as Netscape but Firefox can make it appear as IE if it wanted too, same as Opera.

chump2877
06-26-2006, 05:44 AM
Deloch is clearly on Bill Gates's payroll...enough said....:thumbsup:

rpgfan3233
06-26-2006, 06:53 AM
actually making a site IE only has good reasons sometimes: I can list sime:

1) the use of VBScript
2) the use of ActiveX
3) the use of VML(vector markup language)

1) VBScript, what makes it so much better than JavaScript. Also, you forgot to mention MS' proprietary JavaScript-based Web scripting language JScript.
2) ActiveX, as _Aerospace_Eng_ stated, can be added into Firefox if a user desires, though there really isn't a need.
3) What makes VML so much better than SVG? In fact, SVG has a lot more to offer than VML, especially with cross-browser support. As of Opera 8 and Fx 1.5, SVG is able to be used natively. With IE, you require either converting the SVG to VML or the use of a third-party plugin such as Adobe SVG Viewer to render the content. While there is a lot that is not implemented natively that Adobe's plugin can render, there are other, more useful, things that can be rendered natively.


seriously, are you going to use firefox to view activeX? firefox is 100 years behind activeX, VBscript, and VML, i find them ok and they are not harmful because that make a popup (warning this site contains dangerous activeX controls would you like to continue?) and if you say yes you are pretty stupid since a lot of activeX is dangerous, but in terms of checking your own activeX it is ok, plus VBScript is as safe as Javascript... if you are scared of javascript why be scared of VBscript? VBScript is the same scenario script...

Fx is not behind on VML because VML is only implemented by IE. Here is the URL to the most recent submission for standardization to the W3C: http://www.w3.org/TR/NOTE-VML (note the date)

As for ActiveX, you make a good point. However, the average end-user might do something like this: http://netrn.net/spywareblog/archives/2005/09/25/activex-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/
In other words, you need to when to OK it and when not to. Obviously, the security risks are unknown to the average person who just wants to play a seemingly entertaining game (when do you think the term RTFM resurfaced? when ActiveX started being used for malicious purposes (and it was done with ActiveX because it was so easy))



note: there are only two browsers in the world at this time: Netscape(including Opera, Firefox) and Internet explorer(including custom browsers made on Visual studios) so if you are using FF, then it is going to say: you are using Netscape, if you use Shane browser, it will say you are using Microsoft Internet Explorer
Only two browsers? Hardly. _Aerospace_Eng_ pointed out an excellent site for reference. And actually, it is the other way around with Netscape now. Netscape went back to its root, Mozilla, in NS 7.2 (default layout and everything). NS8 came with two rendering engines, one used Gecko (Fx) and the other was IE's (Trident, I believe). Guess what? The coders added an initial prompt stating that switching to IE's rendering engine is potentially unsafe.

If you are into the Web dev scene at all, you will note that no serious Web dev wants the browser wars of the 1990s to resurface because of IE and Firefox. Why do you think many go to such lengths to make sites cross-browser compatible, especially using bugs to their advantage like the the Holly Hack? Unfortunately, as posted in this IEBlog (http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2005/10/12/480242.aspx) post, such useful hacks can no longer work alone. According to that, using IE's conditional comments are a MUST if pages don't work. This has always been the best way to do it IMHO. The only downside is you have to rework your CSS just for IE. Sometimes, this involves creating an IE-only external stylesheet and other times it is just a few internal styles that need to be added to counter the correct styles while other times you can manage to create a cross-browser page using hacks. This means that if something doesn't work in IE6 that do in IE7 and things that don't work in IE at all work in Fx and/or Opera, you'll need 3 stylesheets, external and/or internal (inline styles are frowned upon), possibly all of which must be applied using conditional comments. Here is an example in which 3 COMPLETE stylesheets must be applied, one for IE7, one for IE6 and one for other browsers:


<!-- separate styles for IE7, IE6 and Firefox/Opera/"normal" browsers -->
<!-- [if IE 7]>
<?xml-stylesheet type="text/css" href="ie7only.css"?>
<![endif] -->

<!-- [if IE 6]>
<?xml-stylesheet type="text/css" href="ie6only.css"?>
<![endif] -->

<!-- [if !IE]>
<?xml-stylesheet type="text/css" href="non_ie.css"?>
<![endif] -->


Or perhaps IE7 requires a couple of fixes, whereas IE6 requires a completely different stylesheet:


<!-- [if !IE 6]>
<?xml-stylesheet type="text/css" href="styles.css"?>
<![endif] -->
<!-- [if IE 7]>
<style type="text/css">
/* <![CDATA[ */

/* IE7 fixes here */

/* ]]> */
</style>
<![endif] -->

<!-- [if IE 6]>
<?xml-stylesheet type="text/css" href="ie6.css"?>
<![endif] -->


As you can see, this can get quite messy. This is apparently going to be necessary until somebody else figures out a hack for the soon-to-be bugs in IE7.

arnyinc
06-28-2006, 09:30 PM
I went to the site in the original post (http://www.explorerdestroyer.com/) with FF and IE. They both look the same. Isn't a bit hypocritical that they don't have an IE blocker running on their website? I guess they realize that they will lose users but they hope you won't realize that.

TheShaner
06-28-2006, 09:57 PM
I went to the site in the original post (http://www.explorerdestroyer.com/) with FF and IE. They both look the same. Isn't a bit hypocritical that they don't have an IE blocker running on their website? I guess they realize that they will lose users but they hope you won't realize that.
No, you got it all wrong.

First of all, their script isn't really an IE blocker unless you want it to be. There are three settings. The first 2 just tell you to download Fx, but still let you into the site, whereas the third level completely blocks. It's not purely an IE blocker script; it's more of an IE nuissance script, haha.

Second, why would they have their "Download Firefox Today" script running on their site that PROMOTES DOWNLOADING FIREFOX?!?! lol They want IE people to see the content on their site, not be inhibited by their own script, lol.

-Shane

drhowarddrfine
06-29-2006, 08:11 PM
IE is totally behind the times, as is IE7. IE can't run XHTML. IE can't run XUL. IE can't run the DOM right. IE can't run CSS right. ActiveX is a virus lightning rod. IE7 is still eight years behind the standards and counting. Only amateurs use IE.

gsnedders
06-29-2006, 08:32 PM
IE can't run XUL.
Why would it? XUL is a proprietary Mozilla markup language.

missing-score
06-29-2006, 08:35 PM
IE is totally behind the times, as is IE7. IE can't run XHTML. IE can't run XUL. IE can't run the DOM right. IE can't run CSS right. ActiveX is a virus lightning rod. IE7 is still eight years behind the standards and counting. Only amateurs use IE.
exactly... and the majority of PC users are ameteur or less... exactly why IE maintains market share. I also think if people want to use IE becuase they dislike firefox or the alternatives then thats fine... at least they have tried the alternative. You may not think they are right to use IE, but to be fair, who are you to say which browser is "right".

drhowarddrfine
06-29-2006, 09:51 PM
Why would it? XUL is a proprietary Mozilla markup language.
So why should Firefox run ActiveX?

XUL is not a markup language but a user interface language.

drhowarddrfine
06-29-2006, 09:54 PM
who are you to say which browser is "right".I AM.

Technically, anything but IE is right. Esthetically, it's like asking which movie or book is best.

marek_mar
06-29-2006, 11:41 PM
You missed the point of missing-score's question.

drhowarddrfine
06-30-2006, 01:10 AM
You missed the point of missing-score's question.
No. Just kidding. Except the second line.

jkd
06-30-2006, 01:30 AM
XUL is not a markup language but a user interface language.

It is both, in fact. <window>blabla</window> certainly looks like markup to me (and any XML parser, for that matter).

Now, what did I say about keeping this thread on topic? Start a new thread if there is some burning issue that hasn't been discussed before.

missing-score
06-30-2006, 04:26 AM
It is both, in fact. <window>blabla</window> certainly looks like markup to me (and any XML parser, for that matter).

Now, what did I say about keeping this thread on topic? Start a new thread if there is some burning issue that hasn't been discussed before.
I think thats probably best jkd. I have started a new thread to continue discussion from here, as I think its an interesting topic/argument and it's also interesting to see what people think.

The thread is located here (http://www.codingforums.com/showthread.php?t=90158)

firepages
07-01-2006, 01:53 AM
Only amateurs use IE.

.. amateur whats ? , I don't know your background but I would be impressed if you knew more about IT/computing in general than several people I deal with on a regular basis most of which use IE if they are on windows... they are not web-developers as such (though one is an ISP, one owns a chain of computer stores and one owns one of the bigger Australian adult websites) all of them use linux on a regular basis though not desktop linux but there are macs scattered about.. however like most businsess' they are primarily MS based.

I use firefox for regular browsing and IE for testing but for no other reason than I like multiple tabs (+ I don't much like the IE7 interface and never quite got into opera)

To the point of this thread ... no commercial website (other than open-source specific or IT industry related) would want such banners or buttons annoying 70-85% of thier regular users, they dont care what browser the user has, they only care that they are on thier website and will do nothing to discourage that.

(sadly we still see 'best viewed in internet explorer...etc' in a lot of places!)

I think many people can end up not being able to `see the wood for the trees` here, most users (amatuer or otherwise) just want to see the content they dialed in .... how they get that is not relevant to them.

I dont think any of IE's misgivings actually affect the end user in any way (aside from security implications), only developers, and only a subset of those actually get too frustrated at this (which is fun to watch) and often get so frustrated as to start making mountains out of molehills in regards to functionality they may or may not need in the firstplace.

only 2 other offtopic points ..
VB IS evil
fieldsets look better in IE ;)



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