Site review please

[jewishj]

My site is Website Wisdom (http://www.wswise.com).

Any comments or constructive criticism on any aspect of the site, from tutorial grammar to design and layout, are greatly appreciated. Also, note that there are alot of features available to customize the site with a user registration, so any comments on that aspect would be helpful.

Please note: do not try to view the page in NS4x. For some reason the browser doesn't read the full source of the page. I am working on fixing this problem.

There is also a need for help in any form. So if you are interested in helping with the site by submitting documentation, scripts or programs, offering an IRC server for the chat features, I am grateful for anything you want to contribute.

If you have any questions about contributions, etc. Please feel free to email me at webmaster@wswise.com, through these forums, or just reply to this post.

Once again, any comments, constructive criticism, contributions, etc. are greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance for your time and effort.

[Roy Sinclair]

It looks ok but running the code through HTML Tidy shows that you've got your tables messed up which would explain your problem with Netscape 4.

HTML Tidy (http://www.w3.org/People/Raggett/tidy/) -- It'll help you make better pages.

[zoobie]

Well, for beginners:

Interesting but familiar use of bulletin board effects on front page...Althought the news thing is popular, most users really aren't interested unless critical to the site. This should probably go off to the side somewhere leaving this valuable space open for eye-grabbing content rather than just plain ol' text :D

PS - That very poor Tidy sight is an example of how geeks can write code like crazy...yet designing a comprehensible website is waaay beyond them.

Such is life :D

[jewishj]

First off.. WOW!!! Thanks for that incredibly quick reply.. that can be timed in minutes!! :D:D:D:D

Now.. down to business:

To Roy Sinclair:
I downloaded HTML Tidy, all it does is open a DOS window and sit there. Do you know of somewhere that I can get a version that doesn't rely on DOS? Also, it will parse around PHP and JavaScript code right?

To zoobie:
What exactly are you referring to when you talk about the "plain 'ol text".. the what's new stuff? That can be moved down on the page, but what would you suggest I could put there? I really don't know of any flashy things that could be used for the site.

Thanks alot :D

[redhead]

i might be mistaken but to me it looks like the main point of your site is JavaScripts. I think what zoobie said was right, perhaps you should have a list of JavaScripts on your first page maybe?

From a design point of view i think it is fine.

[cg9com]

Originally posted by zoobie
Tidy sight is an example of how geeks can write code like crazy...yet designing a comprehensible website is waaay beyond them.

ill second that

[zoobie]

Because Tidy is DOS, you have to type commands into it. See the FAQ on that site (if you can find it) or d/l the GUI to simplify things.

Anyway, the 'news update' thing is what I'm sayin'...Try moving it off to the side or bottom. Use some catchy light graphics (I had no idea this was a javascript site). :rolleyes:

[whackaxe]

the banner looks a bit out of place with the black and yellow wrinting and needs a bit of anti aliasing (asuming you have an oringial)

[jewishj]

Perhaps I should've put this in the original post.

Javascript is not the focus of the site. The focus of the site is to teach people how to design web sites. This includes tutorials, references, and quizzes (once I get my wiseQuiz 2 software past the beta stages) on HTML, DHTML, JavaScript, PHP, Photoshop, Flash, and more. There's also the scripts and programs sections, the scripts section does have copy 'n paste JavaScripts (and VB Scripts at some point). The programs section would have downloadable programs (PHP, Perl, C++, etc.).

To get an overall gist of what is covered, take a look at the categories in the forums (http://www.wswise.com/forums/)

Thanks for the excellent critiquing thus far, I look forward to what else you've got. :D

[beetle]

Ok, the following is a (harsh perhaps) critique of your site and entirely editorial. Please take with a grain of salt.

You have a website dedicated to website design that:

1) Has an ugly logo
2) Has a horrible color scheme
3) Has The tired 'faded' header bar for news
4) Has gobs of deprecated HTML (<center> and <font> to name a couple)
5) Has no doctype or character encoding
6) Doesn't come close to validating against ANY of the doctypes anyway
7) is missing padding where there should be some (text on left)
8) Uses several 'ripped off' graphics or ideas from Microsoft sites (the 'Go' search, for one)

Personally, if I were to make website with a focus that is to "teach people how to design web sites", I would make sure that my site was in order, and a training tool in itself. I am being frank when I say, yours is not.

P.S. So you know that I am not completely negative, the PHP development on the site seems to be very solid. The presentation of the data is nice with a good search tool.

[zoobie]

Still want our opinions? http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lol.gif

PS - If beetle is being frank, who is frank being? :D

[jewishj]

I believe I asked for constructive criticism, not insults! Thank you for noticing the PHP, but your complements fall upon me as more of a shallow atempt to regain my interest in your opinion after your bombardment of my site than anything else.

Things such as "it has an ugly logo" or "it has a horrible color scheme" I can do without!!!!!!

I understand your need to flame after taking a gander at your site. I'm just sorry that you feel the need to boost your own misguided conceptions of your supposed web design skills by trying to bring my site down. Well I laugh at your feeble attempts, HA!! In fact... http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lol.gif

..but don't worry about it, after all... this is just an editorial. Take it with a grain of salt

PS: thanks zoobie for lending me the lol smilie :D

[beetle]

Hey, I appreciate anything you have to say, as long as it is honest. For your edification, I actually have started a new design in the face of my current site's ugliness (and age...it's well over a year old!)

www.peterbailey.net/new/site.php?page=why

Now, about the things I said. Perhaps you would have preferred if I substituted 'ugly' with 'unattractive' and 'horrible' with 'less-than-pleasing'. But that would be an unecessary buttering-up of my true opinion. I mean, we're all adults here right? Directness, not insults. Take these things in stride, and don't reply to my editorial with nothing but scorn for me! It only makes you look foolish, and childish. I did my best to prepare your mind's ears for what they were about to hear, but gauging by your reply, I don't think I did a good enough job.

So, allow me to officially apologize for anything I typed that insulted you. I had NO intention of offending. Also, allow me one more chance to offer 'your flavor' of constructive criticism

1) Logo. What are we saying here? The lines are pixelated (I think someone else mentioned the aliasing). Also, why the heavy emboss with a boring font (Arial Black?). Sorry, just not appealing to me.

2) Color scheme. 3-4 shades of blue with no green hue plus 3-4 more shades of blue WITH a green hue and then orange (plus the light gold in the logo) I'm sorry, that just ain't happenin. Purple would make a more approriate tertiary color to the 'royal blue' you have chosen.

I think everything else I said was pretty much in-line.

Cheers, and no hard feelings (well, I don't have any) :D

[jewishj]

That response is much more of what I am looking for. I realize that you didn't want to "butter up" your opinion, but comments such as "the logo is ugly" don't help at all and are better left unsaid. The comments in your last post are much more benificial to me. I can actually use the pixelation of the lines comment, and make changes to better the layout. :D

BTW: I have no hard feelings either. :D

Water under the bridge as they say. Sorry for the misunderstanding, but the context that I read your message in was one of utter flaming.

What do you think of the new logo? any better?

Just wondering, I noticed all of those certifications etc. and was wondering where you got certified.

[beetle]

Yes, the aliasing problem is gone, and the font, although not the best IMHO, is better.

Let me show you with pictures what words alone cannot convey....

What I see when I look at the page (http://www.peterbailey.net/images/web_photos/wswise1.gif)

A few ideas... (http://www.peterbailey.net/images/web_photos/wswise2.gif)

[zoobie]

I'd make a nice menu of categorized scripts below the logo and above the 'what's news' blurbs which nobody reads anyway.

http://geocities.com/zoobie007/js.txt

What are those 1 x 1 pix gifs? This brings up another subject...Search Engine Optimization (SEO). A SE would rank your site very low because you haven't followed standard optimization techniques. They may even ban you for using 1 x 1 px gifs thinking they're spam (oh yes). Lots more info here (http://searchengineforums.com/bin/Ultimate.cgi).

Anyway, keep on truckin' http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/biggrin3.gif

[whackaxe]

you still havent got rid of those graphics from MSN and PHPBB. they dont go with the color sceme anyway. AND msn and phpbb might get quite annoyed that you are using thier graphics

[jewishj]

Well, it looks like you put some time into this... I thank you for your efforts. I'm not going to implement the new color scheme right now, but it's very possible that it will get changed in the next couple of days. Thanks for pointing out the padding issue in the first place.

I don't think I'm going to modify the header, I made the logo the way it is so that it specifically blends from the left, and I just don't like the way the centered logo looks. I don't find it disturbing, and I've seen it like this on many professional sites.

Also, a question: What was your screen resolution, because that strip of blue to the right shouldn't even be there.

Once again, thanks for the time and effort that you have put into this. And I would appreciate it alot if you could leave those images up for a few days.

[jewishj]

-That last post was a reply to beetles last post. I didn't even see these other two replys already :D

To zoobie:
-The site is not mainly a free scripts site, but I could probably come up with some ideas from your image, thanks for taking the time/effort to make it
-Haven't gotten around to meta tags, etc. yet

To Whackaxe:
-The MSN search graphic I'll change, when I have free time, for now, I'm sure I'm not on their list of priorities
-as for phpBB, they give the images, etc. to you for free with their forums (also free). I see no reason why they should or would get annoyed at me using their graphics. I will modify them when I get time, but little things that people don't notice that much (like a sticky post or new post icon) aren't as important to me as getting all of the old JavaScript tutorials back up.

Thanks

[beetle]

My screen resolution at home is 1024x768

[applesauce]

i agree with beetle on the padding and colors

[jewishj]

I have come to a decision regarding the colors. I am going to keep the current colors, except modify the green header bars and the orange text. I do not like the greenish-blueish color scheme. I like the current color scheme except for the green header bars with the orange text, I do agree that those do not fit.

things such as changing the phpBB images will happen, but i thought it was more important to get the site up once it was functional and work out the details later rather than wait until it was perfected to change it.

I have also thought of something to put above the what's new crap. What do you guys think of a "section or concept" of the week/day thing? Every week or day there could be a different resource or concept or even a term of focus. This would most likely be daily unless it was a big thing. There would be some kind of accompaning (I know that's spelled wrong) image to go with the daily/weekly thing to grab attention.

The padding thing is definitely a great idea. I actually think I intended to do that originally but forgot to do it at some point, thanks for reminders. :D

[beetle]

I like the idea of the daily/weekly thing. Of course...depending on how much traffic you get (and how regularly you get it) you will probably want to do weekly instead (in the beginning at least), otherwise many visitors will miss out entirely, or be forced to go through an archive (if you plan on keeping one)

Bravo on the color scheme. I unintentionally focused on the blue/green, but that wasnt really important. You just needed something more cohesive, and going either way is entirely up to you. I'd like to see it when you've got it done.

[cg9com]

Originally posted by jewishj
I understand your need to flame after taking a gander at your site

you admit insulting someones site is wrong.
then you do it, a bit hypocritical i would say.

Originally posted by zoobie
'what's news' blurbs which nobody reads anyway

this is all 2 tru

[jewishj]

OK beetle, I have changed the color scheme, to a softer than the topbar, yet harder than the background blue (with a text color of silverish/grayish/whiteish). Also, look on the forums down where the administrator thing is in the "whos online" section of the index page. That's right, no longer orange. :D

Also, the padding thing is done, but does anyone have suggestions for a new search button?

I can't think up a good idea for a search button, I still want the overlapping the textbox effect, so I would need something that would work with that.

AND---- in response to cg9com:

Firstly, hippocritical or not my statements were made because of misunderstanding and/or misinterpretation. I believe both I and beetle apologized and decided to leave it in the past. Perhaps you should've read those posts before retorting.

Secondly, if you had checked out the full info before posting, you would've seen that we had discussed several ideas relating to what else can go on the index page.

To avoid any more misinterpretations on this post, please note that this is not written with nor is intended to be read with a hostile or otherwise unkind tone. Everyone is happy and smilin' :D:D:D:D

[beetle]

Instead of the magnifying lens...uhh....Maybe a light-bulb or binoculars or a generic arrow/button of some sort.

[jewishj]

I went with binoculars, they now make up my new search button. :D

[zoobie]

It looks like 2 eyes lookin' at ya... http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/mica/Misceyes.gif

[cg9com]

i did read everything jewishj.
just be careful of what you say when you are angry.
all is forgiven, that is what is best