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View Full Version : You call yourself a critic??



dauvm
10-22-2002, 05:25 AM
Hey everyone...

This is my first site using total XHTML strict, CSS, and trying really hard to conform to the W3C web accessiblity standards. I've ripped this site apart by myself for weeks... so I am hoping no one finds super obvious mistakes, but if anyone who considers themselves a real critic wants to be super picky... here's your chance. I figured I'd post this for a final review because there are about 10 threads on codingforums that helped me get through this project.

http://www.thecourtyardcafe.biz

oh yea... I didn't write ANY of the actual content, so if the wording is wierd, it wasn't me! Also, the images at the top of the page are going to be much better quality and different for each page as soon as i get my camera man to do his job :)

-Doug

ionsurge
10-22-2002, 06:38 AM
I couldnt find any problems, apart from the font you used or the designer used for the buttons that are the menu. You used Pepita MT, or Rage Italic, or something along those lines, which can be quite difficult to read at times.


Ionsurge.

ionsurge
10-22-2002, 06:40 AM
Also, what did you use xhtml for? I can't find anything that would need that.


Ionsurge.

Mhtml
10-22-2002, 08:16 AM
Xhtml being the new standard for coding ion. It is a slightly different style of coding.

example: <img src="ttt.gif" />
<br />

Everything must also be in proper CaSe!

Mhtml
10-22-2002, 08:22 AM
I just use DW MX in xhtml mode.

Spookster
10-22-2002, 09:01 AM
I would put pictures of the cafe at the top verses fruit baskets since you have the name of the cafe there. The fruit pictures would go better with the text in the paragraphs describing the fruit.

The background of the top menu would either look better all the way across or sized smaller to fit the menu.

As was mentioned before the font used for the bottom menu is hard to read.

For the secondary pages I would stick with the header on the first page for the top of every page for a consistent look and feel. If I go to the secondary pages I no longer know what the business' name is. You could put the titles of those pages down into the body above the text.

Other than that nice overall.

ronaldb66
10-22-2002, 09:07 AM
Doug,

wow, that must be one of the cleanest coding jobs i saw in a while. I didn't go over it with a fine tooth comb, but i couldn't see anything amiss.
I don't know if you appreciate any comment on the site itself, but i'd would suggest being cautious with using a lot of different fonts; it quickly gets messy.

ionsurge
10-22-2002, 10:07 AM
Ah, there is another problem, your font that you use in the main window, doesn't seem to come with some versionsof Windows, and it looks really unclear, and hard to read.

I am not at home, and am using another machine, which is at 800 x 600, and your site looks strange.

I can't seem to be able to attach the image with this machine, but I will try and try till I can and I will post it later.



Ionsurge.

jkd
10-22-2002, 11:55 AM
Houlton, ME? I live in Bridgewater, ME! Wow, small world.

Anyway, very nice. I took a look at in a text-based browser (links) because accessible websites should be readable in them, and it came out pretty well. :)

If you want to expand on the concept of accessibility, one very cool thing is to use <link/> tags:

A quick example of navigational aids (http://diveintoaccessibility.org/day_9_providing_additional_navigation_aids.html)

Mhtml
10-22-2002, 12:03 PM
I just looked at the site, wow! Really quick loading on my 56k, it was like it was running of my pws.

As for the code looks good, nothing out of place from what I saw.

dauvm
10-22-2002, 03:52 PM
these are really great comments! I just wrote them all down, I have a few classes to go to right now but I'll see if I can touch up some of these things tonight.
Spookster, I like your ideas for the images, I will do that as soon as I get more of them taken. I kept the top menu wider than the origional font because when you enlarge the font it returns a line and looks bad. Using 100% of the top would fix that though.

I will see if I can change the font in the buttons, I agree it can be hard to read.

jkd, well if you're in Bridgewater, I have an excelent place for you to eat :) actually it is really good. I looked into the <link /> tag before, but never really understood how to use it... I'll take a look at the URL

and ionsurge, as Mhtml touched on, I am using XHTML because it's very strict (but not in a designing sense), and when you view it in a kinda old browser it just comes out like HTML, but in a new browser they can switch into standards mode which is much faster...

I just looked at the site, wow! Really quick loading on my 56k, it was like it was running of my pws. than newer browser's "quirk" mode. I forgot where I read about that or I'd give you a URL. Also, if you CAN get an image of the fonts messed up uploaded, I'd like to check that out.

Thanks again for everyone's comments.

-Doug

whackaxe
10-22-2002, 04:27 PM
i was wondering what the point of having change font size was? if its for screen size then you can do that using CSS or a js script to detect screen sizes

jkd
10-22-2002, 04:37 PM
Originally posted by whackaxe
i was wondering what the point of having change font size was? if its for screen size then you can do that using CSS or a js script to detect screen sizes

Javascript is typically ruled out as a way to make pages more accessible.

The larger font size is probably for people who have poor vision.

dauvm
10-22-2002, 05:40 PM
bingo :D

I only use one javascript in the whole site, on the index page (even if javascipt is turned off, all fuctions of the site are still useable):


<script type="text/JavaScript">
<!-- <!CDATA[

if (document.layers) self.location.replace("http://www.thecourtyardcafe.biz/archived_ver1/index.html");

// ]]> -->
</script>

This sends NN4 to the archived version of the page... which is pretty crappy, but better than what they'd get if I didn't send them to it.

Actually, a question: I know that Mozilla 1.1 isn't affected by this code, but I don't have anything between NN4.5 and Moz 1.1... would something like NN6 be affected by it? That probably wouldn't be good..

and as for enlarging the font... I just wanted to see how I could do that at first, but then I was showing the page to a friend, explaining that fuction, with an older guy standing beside me... I clicked that link and the other guys said "ah, that's better"... so I decided to keep it :)

jkd
10-22-2002, 05:47 PM
Originally posted by dauvm
Actually, a question: I know that Mozilla 1.1 isn't affected by this code, but I don't have anything between NN4.5 and Moz 1.1... would something like NN6 be affected by it? That probably wouldn't be good..


NS 6.2 is Mozilla 0.94. It won't be affected. Neither will earlier versions of NS6.

allida77
10-22-2002, 05:57 PM
I am not sure if you just wanted comments on the code or the actual site. The only thing I would change is your navigation. People are accustomed to nav bars on the top or side. I see no reason to have it on the bottom. I would actually swap what you have at the top with the nav bar on the bottom. By swapping them the focus is on the other pages not on increasing the font size or site map.

The layout looks good as long as it works in the polular browser you should be fine. I dont know why but for some reason people who stick with CSS and XHTML always design cleaner sites.

Looks Good

dauvm
10-22-2002, 06:22 PM
thanks allida77...
I will take comments on any aspect of the site, btw.

I am designing this page for the resturaunt, I don't own it or anything! They wanted the red outline, the pictures and logos at top, the content they wrote in the middle, and the menu to the pages they wanted at the bottom. I realize that is it much better to have the menu at the top, but they wanted it at the bottom. I compromized by adding the link in the top menu that jumps the content and goes down the the navigation menu.

The stuff at the top is at the top because I think it's needed before anything else. If they want to skip the content and get to the menu (and I have to have the menu at the bottom) then that link has to be at the top... if they can't read the content, the solution should be easy to find, and if they are having trouble reading the text in the nav menu buttons at the bottom (which I'm planning to make more readable now) then they need to have a text alternative (e.g. the sitemap).

I personally would have put the menu at the top too though... it's just not what they wanted. Thanks for the comment.

-Doug

dauvm
10-23-2002, 01:32 AM
I figured out the <link /> stuff and put that in... but before I upload it I have something else I want to change...

on the
lunches page (http://www.thecourtyardcafe.biz/lunches.html) I have something like this:
http://www.thecourtyardcafe.biz/backup/soups.gif
and i'm using some code for that that I don't like, because if the text in the middle expands too much it pushes the lines out and you could possibly get this:
http://www.thecourtyardcafe.biz/backup/ooie.gif
which isn't good. so what I want to do it use one black line that runs 80%, and then force the text with background color=white over that... still get the same effect, but never get the line return. How do I force the text to be centered OVER that image line???

-Doug

jkd
10-23-2002, 02:14 AM
I'd say maybe something like:

<div style="background: url(theline.gif); text-align: center;">
<span style="background: #fff; color: #000;">the text</span>
</div>

?

dauvm
10-23-2002, 02:20 AM
I thought of that... but how would I keep the thin black line centered with the text, even as the text expands in height?

Makes it kinda difficult, does it?

I recall some kinda of repeat-x or something, but how well is that supported?

-Doug



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