ColdFusion vs. PHP or ASP

[harlequin2k5]

Our company website (http://www.swegerconstruction.com) is currently designed using an Access database and uses ColdFusion.

I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts about which is better or if it's just a matter of preference?

There may come a day when I'm not the one in charge of maintaining our website >as if!< and I'd like to be able to pass it on to someone who may have minimal knowledge and/or minimal time.

The ColdFusion in the main website is not as crucial as the backside of the site. It's used on the backside by my guys out in the field and I'm getting ready to implement more features for them to use, but before I do I thought I'd finally get this question answered.

Thanks!

[SpirtOfGrandeur]

It is completely user preference. But just an fyi ColdFusion developers are more in demand because they are a dying breed. (Because PHP is free, and M$ is everywhere). If you want to make it so that the most people will be able to take over your job change it to php (What most people learn on due to the $Free$).

[oracleguy]

Now days, I wouldn't do any new large scale development using ColdConFusion, I'd use something like PHP or ASP. Especially considering it costs lots of money to license ColdFusion to run on a server.

If you have existing software already written in ColdFusion, it is probably not worth the effort to translate it unless you are planning on doing a major re-write.

ColdFusion was quite good back in the day before ASP and PHP were what they are today.

I guess if you know ColdFusion and your management knows you are the only one that does, its good job security since like the previous poster said, CF developers aren't exactly easy to come by anymore. But that is only if you are worried about them outsourcing your job.

[nikkiH]

After having to move hosts and getting charged up the wazoo for cold fusion hosting, I plan on porting our CF app to PHP.

Cold Fusion is dying, IMO, due to very high pricing and the lack of anything ASP.NET can't do (for that price!).
If you're already paying for windows hosting, you often get .net anyway. Why pay more for CF? You know?

Port it to either .net or PHP, depending on whether it's meant to be windoze or *nix. Some things are just easier to port to one platform over another. If it doesn't matter, choose LAMP. Can't go wrong with that unless you're doing intranet windows authentication or something...

[harlequin2k5]

I appreciate all the feedback - it's absolutely fabulous after the other forums that I've been to and heard only chirping crickets.

I have ColdFusion server myself...however, I only pay $13.95/mo for ColdFusion hosting through MultipleHat.com. Never have any trouble with them and such and such.

But Nikki just brought up another point for me to consider. Currently I do not have an "intranet". Our computers are all hooked to a hub for internet access and I alone can access several of the other computers, but I do not have a server setup. Those would all be questions for an entirely different forum I believe.

But let's say I was going to move my website backend to the office - easier to consolidate a total of 3 database applications that I've designed - would I do that using ColdFusion or one of the others?

As this is going to lead to more questions, please feel free to email (bmccarthy@swegerconstruction.com) me to continue this conversation or advise other sites that I can go to to learn more.

All I want to do is bring my office into the 21st century at minimal expense. We just moved into the 20th century by getting broadband internet access!! :D

Thanks again for all of your feedback!

[nikkiH]

I think keeping the conversation here is best so people can benefit from it, personally.

But let's say I was going to move my website backend to the office - easier to consolidate a total of 3 database applications that I've designed - would I do that using ColdFusion or one of the others?

Not sure what you mean there. Do what with ColdFusion or the others? The actual move? Neither. You just move your files to a new server and don't change a thing, assuming the server is configured properly. If you want to re-code later, great, but just to move your stuff, you ftp (or whatever) your files over, set up any DSNs required, config the server, and that's it.

[harlequin2k5]

What I meant was -

I have designed 2 (not 3) stand-alone database applications that contain much the same data (long story). When they were designed we weren't even close to having any kind of network here.

But now that we are closer (I stated earlier we're at least all connected to a hub for internet access) - if I wanted to setup an intranet here at the office (we have an old HP 500mhz running Win98 sitting in the corner collecting dust - not the perfect solution but it's a start) - what would be a plan of action involving minimal cost?

I have ColdFusion Server and I can't say I'm well versed in it but I can at least setup datasources and such. My data can then stay on the server and certain functions could be performed locally with Excel or Word?

Then I can reduce our cost for hosting because then I wouldn't need ColdFusion for our main website. I believe BrightHouse doesn't allow site hosting on RoadRunner?

Am I getting way ahead of myself?? *chuckles* You've been such a great help already Nikki!!

[nikkiH]

It really depends on what you want to do. I know jack about setting up networks -- I let the network guys do that! :D
But you don't need to worry about your apps until the network is functional. Once that happens, you can look at your options, as many of them will depend on how the network is designed, anyway (permissions, active directory?, windows authentication? etc).
Keep in mind the term "data source" is not just a coldfusion concept. Windows has data sources that can then be used by any application on the machine.
To set up a windows data source for XP, open up control panel, go to odbc data source section, and look at the different tabs. See how some will exist only for users, some for the whole machine, and whatnot.
If the people on the network set up data sources to your database on another machine (properly), Excel, Word, and Access can all get to the data.

[harlequin2k5]

That's a perfect place for me to start!

While I get the network setup I can be reading about PHP to see if it's a viable solution for us or if I'm just going to leave it all alone

Guess this means I know what I'll be doing on Saturdays for a while now eh? :D

[SpirtOfGrandeur]

(we have an old HP 500mhz running Win98 sitting in the corner collecting dust - not the perfect solution but it's a start)

Will that even run ColdFusion? You might need to go with an old linux, appache, and php to get that up and running at decent speeds.

[oracleguy]

Will that even run ColdFusion? You might need to go with an old linux, appache, and php to get that up and running at decent speeds.

I doubt it, at my previous job, we were working on a ColdFusion application on an old server and it was slooow, I mean you could really tell. It was a Pentium II Xeon 450MHz with 512MB of RAM and Windows 2000 Server.

You would most certainly need to upgrade from win98 regardless.

[nikkiH]

Will that even run ColdFusion? You might need to go with an old linux, appache, and php to get that up and running at decent speeds.

No, CF requires at least 500MB RAM to be anything close to decent, and it also needs a web server that understands data sources and whatnot. It runs best on IIS, which can't be installed on W98. You could probably install it on Linux with Apache, but since I have yet to find a host that does so, I assume it bites *** on that platform.

They'd need a box running Windows NT sp6 with at least 500MB RAM to see good perfomance. You can run it on less, but it sucks.

[harlequin2k5]

The computer that I use is a P4/1.3 mhz with 128mb and runs Win 2000 and it bogs down when I run CF

As I've said - we're a small company and I don't have a big budget (if you consider $0 a budget) and I would only have 2-3 people logged on at once - 1 or 2 of them logged on for pretty much the whole day

Considering Nikki's previous post that I can setup a datasource through Windows I can continue to use my database frontends and access the tables on the old HP and as time goes on and as needs change I can make the necessary upgrades

Guess I'll have to dig out my Access Enterprise books again too :)

You all have answered just about every question I've had - I have more but they don't belong in this particular forum - they require my going back to my books

Thank you all so much!

[harlequin2k5]

Nikki -

I'm going to test your patience with me *chuckles* - probably OracleGuy too

I want to settle my original post by saying I have another website I'm going to try PHP with

The patience tester is this...

>Here we go again with not knowing how to ask the question correctly<

I would like to continue to use the front-ends that I've designed in Access (and I realize I may need to redo them with VB - I've been leaning that way for about a year now)...

How do I link to the tables?

In other words, right now the front-end and the tables are stored on the same computer - if I centralize the tables and distribute different front-ends for remote access how do I connect to the tables?

Using Access I just used the File->Get External Data->Link Tables and go from there which is easy because as I've said it's all stored on the same computer...however, when I try to do this to link to the database I have setup on our website it doesn't work. Something to do with ftp access maybe?

I've been struggling with this for over a year believe it or not - I have several books on Access and VB and MSOD and I can't make heads or tails of the MSOD online forums (I'm embarassed to say)

I think if I can get this one final question answered the rest should be easy (except of course talking my boss into letting me get a copy of vb unless vb6 is still a good copy?)

[nikkiH]

Using VB, you want either DAO (Data Access Object) or ADO (ActiveX Data Object? Something-Data Object, anyway LOL)

It's all about DSN names.
Find out how to connect using only a DSN. I could tell you for ASP, but haven't coded VB for console apps in forever.
Set up the DSN in Windows like I said. Outside of any application. Control Panel, ODBC data sources.

Stop using Wizards.
:D

[oracleguy]

I think if I can get this one final question answered the rest should be easy (except of course talking my boss into letting me get a copy of vb unless vb6 is still a good copy?)

If you have VB6 and are on a tight budget, don't waste your money going to VB.net, if anything it will slow you down at first. I use Visual Studio 2003 for C#/C++ but when I do something in VB I almost always still use VB6. Why? Maybe I'm just stubborn but I'm not the only one, IMO with version 7 while adding some nice stuff to VB, they took away from what made it great: simplicity.

You could use a DSN to connect to the tables on another machine, now if the tables are on a database on your webserver, which is outside of your control out on the net, it might be rather difficult, I dunno, I haven't ever done it that way.

One alternative would be to write little script to download a copy of your db via ftp every day or whatever to a local machine on your network and use that to link your front-ends to. I know if it was on your network, you could definetly do that.

[harlequin2k5]

My preference would be to store the tables at the office - the trick though is if I have guys that are outside of the office - the office is in Oldsmar, FL (near Tampa) and right now one of my guys is in Pensacola and for 3 weeks another guy was down near Miami - how would they connect? Some of the data their inputting is entered daily - expense reports, daily diaries, etc. The project manager in the office would need to have access to that stuff?

I'm going to start a new design using vb6 and then tell my boss I need a raise and you guys need a bonus!! *chuckles*

Scratch that asking how to get the data - you already answered it about using a script.

[nikkiH]

Assuming they have access to your network, they connect the same way everyone does. Via a DSN.
You can make a script that sets up a DSN if they don't know how. If you have a program they will install, I *think* installshield and similar can set up DSNs. But I'm not positive. I don't usually make desktop apps.

[harlequin2k5]

Woohoo!

I finally have the answers I need!!

In case you guys haven't noticed - I'm not at all schooled in any of this stuff . I find something I want to try, buy a book and then hopefully I can make something from it.

You guys are truly the best!!

[oracleguy]

If you have a program they will install, I *think* installshield and similar can set up DSNs. But I'm not positive. I don't usually make desktop apps.

Yeah, I'd have to actually look at my InstallShield program to know for sure but I think you can as well.

You guys are truly the best!!

Thanks, happy to help.

[harlequin2k5]

One alternative would be to write little script to download a copy of your db via ftp every day or whatever to a local machine on your network and use that to link your front-ends to. I know if it was on your network, you could definetly do that.

It turns out this is going to be my most practical solution considering I've gotten myself so worked up and upset about this (I take this whole technology thing way too serious). I've been to Microsoft's website and read all about RDS and contacted my webhost who was unable to provide an answer and now after approx 10 days and being no further than when I started, it's time to move on.

Any suggestions on where I might look for such a script?

And boy oh boy I can't wait for you guys to see how this all is going to work! :D

[jbrun]

Hello,

I have been using Joomla for about 3 months now and I love it! I have deployed it on three sites, none of which are very complex, but the support and extensions are amazing.

I work for an environmental company (4 months now) that has created a rather complex database software to manage environmental legislation and provide help to companies that subscribe. We also create customized profiles for companies so that they can link their industrial activities to descriptive topics (water management, hazardous waste, ...) which in turn link to actual legislation.

This has been programmed over the course of a couple years in Coldfusion. I do not like the way it is programmed (no modules, no flexibility, difficult to maintain, proprietary technology...). What is the feasibility of doing something complex in Joomla and are there some good comparisons between Coldfusion and PHP??

We are talking about hundreds of documents, topics, sub-topics, various clients with various levels of access, customized sections. A major feature is updating and uploading documents (xml format) that are linked to others, these documents are then unpublished and the administrator is notified, then need to be screened by an administrator for changes. There is also two languages throughout the system.

The software works well now, but i feel I am limited by cfm - am i wrong? I am not a programmer, but I have a bit of experience and I generally understand the concepts (I am an engineer).

What I would really be interested in is consulting with someone who has extensive large database management experience and who can tell me how crazy my ideas are.

the web database i am referring to is found at www.nimonik.ca - you can look at the virtual tour to get an idea of its capabilities. My current Joomla sites are www.eem.ca and www.strikealight.org.

Any guidance would be great.

Thanks