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View Full Version : Site Built With Photoshop & Image Ready... Add Text for Search Engines



TJIsACoolGuy
09-01-2005, 09:08 AM
I have built a site that is built with Photoshop and Image ready.... therefore it does not use any "real" text... the text is all graphics.... Therefore...the search engines...when they crawl the web they do not pick up the words to use as keywords....is there any way to code my site so that the engines will pick up the words without having them actually show up or destroy what I have created with graphics? I know about meta-tags, but not all the engines use them and I have heard they do not work that well.... I just would like a place to type out exactly what I already have in my graphics so that the engines will pick them up without changing the look of my pages.... I hope this makes sense... Any help is greatly appreciated.

mark87
09-01-2005, 03:44 PM
Most search engines will recognise meta tags.

You could also place the text in a div and hide the div.

<div id="setext">
All your text here.
</div>

CCS -

#setext {
display: none;
}

Why are you using all images for text though? :cool:

TJIsACoolGuy
09-01-2005, 05:41 PM
Because there is not very much text and the text that is there has to look really good because it is a portfolio website. Where do I pace both of those separate pieces in my code? Or is that one entire block. Thank you for your help.

bazz
09-01-2005, 06:44 PM
is html not good enough at outputting text?? perhaps you are using a font style which is a bit obscure?

rrhodes
09-02-2005, 05:51 AM
If search engine optimization is a priority, you really need to do it in HTML (not sliced images). There are many skilled web designers who can create "portfolio quality" websites using an appropriate mix of HTML and images.

TJIsACoolGuy
09-02-2005, 09:12 AM
I know you all don't understand it, but I really need to have the site the way I have it.... It looks very good. I can not do it any other way. I know there are skilled designers that can do it, but what I need is some advice from a skilled coder who knows how to insert text but not have it affect my page, but have the web crawlers "see" the text and log it.

NancyJ
09-02-2005, 09:21 AM
Modern search engines arent stupid. Hiding content on pages has been a trick used by sites for as long as there have been search engines indexing on more than meta tags.
Hidden content is a way of 'keyword stuffing' often used to add misspellings and alternative words that dont fit the main body text. It is not a solution to your problem.
Basically it would work but if you got caught you could face a ban.

I for one aam glad your site wont show up on search engine listings because IMO it doesnt deserve to be there. If you're not prepare to listen to the advice of experienced professionals and make your site properly then I dont want to run the risk of ever finding it, sites made purely using images suck without exception and there is never any excuse for them no matter how good you think it looks.

Pennimus
09-02-2005, 11:40 AM
I for one aam glad your site wont show up on search engine listings because IMO it doesnt deserve to be there. If you're not prepare to listen to the advice of experienced professionals and make your site properly then I dont want to run the risk of ever finding it, sites made purely using images suck without exception and there is never any excuse for them no matter how good you think it looks.

Well said Nancy J!



...what I need is some advice from a skilled coder who knows how to insert text but not have it affect my page, but have the web crawlers "see" the text and log it.


If you do this, in order to gain good rankings you will be reported before you can say 'search engine spam' and you will be removed from the search engines quick snap. There is no way to gain rankings without doing things properly - sure, you could be up there for a couple of hours maybe, but is this really worth it?

PS - In the case of using 'hidden text' - such as using the CSS display: none; value or text the same colour as the background you won't even need to be reported as the major SE's will discount this text immediately and penalise you.

SpirtOfGrandeur
09-02-2005, 06:54 PM
Why are we all here being critical? Why is it... that is horrible... you guys are being overly harsh. If the page is done in all images then that is his own discretion. You guys have not right to judge him. This is a helpful board. He might not know anything about HTML/CSS and is an art student who wants to try to learn. Give him a break... (PS. I am ashamed of the way you guys handled this, except for you mark)


Now to answer the question at hand. I was sitting in my CSE 681 class this week and the professor and students where just as stunned as you at this. How can we make pretty text and still have the text show up in order to allow for older sites that do not use CSS to display the text. (Which also allows for crawlers to index the site.)

Please try the code below. You will need to make an image to display but this will work for you. and also a new ID for every div you make. The trick here is to make your DIV into the exact height and width of your image. That way it flows correctly.

HTML:

<div id='imageText'>This is my text here... it can be as long as I want...</div>
CSS:
#imageText {
margin-left: -15000px;
background: url(./images/your_image_here.gif) no-repeat top left;
height: image_height_here px;
width: image_width_here px;
}

Basically what this is doing if the site has CSS enabled it throws the text way to the left (out of site) and shows the image in its place. And if CSS is not enabled (Web Crawlers) it just display the text in properly flowing order.

I hope this helps :)

TJIsACoolGuy
09-02-2005, 07:37 PM
Thanks for your help SpirtOfGrandeur, I am glad that this is still a place that the people who don't know anything about coding (like me, I am a VIDEO Professional) can come here and seek knowledge and wisdom from the people who do. I was worried for a second....I felt like you had to be an expert html css coder and pass some test before you could post here. Thank you NancyJ, you were real nice. :D

Graft-Creative
09-03-2005, 12:06 PM
PS - In the case of using 'hidden text' - such as using the CSS display: none; ... you won't even need to be reported as the major SE's will discount this text immediately and penalise you.

Is that really true? Many designers use this technique for entirely altruistic reasons: i.e. for accessability - for the disabled and for prople using non-css enabled viewing devices. Sure, keyword spamming will be bad for Search enngine placement - but all this guy is saying is that he wants to replace exactly what his graphics say, with html text, whats' wrong with that? Everyone wins :)

Back to answers: If you do a search for image replacement techniques, you'll get loads of results, and it's just a case of picking one which you prefer. Personally I'm favouring mIR at the moment.

Gary

Graft-Creative
09-03-2005, 12:20 PM
I'm guessing that seeing as you used imageready to code your site then you'll need to apply the image replacement to your table cells:

CSS


td p {
text-indent: -999em;
overflow: hidden;
}


HTML


<tr>
<td>
<p>hidden text here</p>
</td>
</tr>


Gary

Pennimus
09-06-2005, 12:28 PM
Why are we all here being critical? Why is it... that is horrible... you guys are being overly harsh. If the page is done in all images then that is his own discretion. You guys have not right to judge him. This is a helpful board. He might not know anything about HTML/CSS and is an art student who wants to try to learn. Give him a break... (PS. I am ashamed of the way you guys handled this, except for you mark)

I was being critical for a reason. TJ asked advice on how to get ranked in the search engines, and he wasn't going about it in the right way. The second he asked for advice about his website, of course we have a right to judge *his site* (not him, but then nobody judged him).

I don't see how giving bad advice that will only get you banned from the SE's, or at the very least just be a waste of time, qualifies as a better way to handle the issue than what I said. I made it clear through my support of Nancy's comment and my notes about why hiding text is a bad idea that in order to rank well you have to build your site 'conventionally'. I answered his question properly.



Is that really true? Many designers use this technique for entirely altruistic reasons: i.e. for accessability - for the disabled and for prople using non-css enabled viewing devices. Sure, keyword spamming will be bad for Search enngine placement - but all this guy is saying is that he wants to replace exactly what his graphics say, with html text, whats' wrong with that? Everyone wins

Everyone wins - in an ideal world. But you have to remember that the SE's use an algorithm that is incapable of determining what's an honest use of a technique and what is spamming. Therefore, if you use a technique that has been flagged as 'black hat' (which hiding keywords certainly has - yes, even putting them 15000 pixels off to the left of the screen) then the SE's will see it as a deceptive technique and penalise you accordingly.

In any case they certainly won't count the hidden text for ranking purposes, which is the whole point of this thread is it not?

I mean, look at it from the machines point of view - "this text isn't relevant enough to actually show the user - so therefore why should I rate it as valuable in any way either?"

Answer - "I shouldn't".

ronaldb66
09-06-2005, 05:05 PM
TJ,

You could have dampened this whole images-for-text-is-rubbish discussion by not being so cloak-and-dagger about what your site is about and what it looks like.
If it's true that
there is not very much text and all the major content is of a visual nature, following accessibility guidelines you ought to supply alternative text content in the form of alt, title of longdesc attributes.

Again, any sort of advice would be much more effective if you could actually show what your site looks like, and in any case the "I know next to nothing about web development but I have a fixation about how I want this done and I refuse any advice that deviates from that preconceived idea" attitude is not the best way to get ahead in this game.

TJIsACoolGuy
09-12-2005, 09:22 AM
Everyone needs to calm down! :) ...... i thought this would be a great place to get advice...but..... people need to stop being rude....anyway..... my site is www.tjgleason.com I am not being cloak- and - dagger about it... anyway about the....... ""this text isn't relevant enough to actually show the user - so therefore why should I rate it as valuable in any way either?"

Answer - "I shouldn't"." is incorrect.... the text IS being shown...it is just being done as an image rather than text.... I have not had very much luck actually CODING text with GOLIVE to make a broad range of browsers view it correctly.... I'll get it looking good for me...but using a different browser or text size will ruin the look I want. This is my reason for doing everything as images...... I know that people know how to do this and that there is a way to, but I do not know how. Maybe that is what I need help with....anyway I thought I could get help here... so this is where I came.. I am not stupid when it comes to computers...I am just more into filmmaking than web design. Anyway, help would be appreciated.

oracleguy
09-12-2005, 06:10 PM
I have not had very much luck actually CODING text with GOLIVE to make a broad range of browsers view it correctly.... I'll get it looking good for me...but using a different browser or text size will ruin the look I want.

That is the problem using WYISWYG programs most of them can't do a perfect job at it, some are better than others, like Frontpage couldn't made a valid page if its life depended on it but GoLive and Dreamweaver are better. In my experience between GoLive an Dreamweaver, the latter is better and somewhat easier to use.

From looking at your site, it looks like a fair chunk of it could be changed from images to regular text with a little effort since you are using tables for layout anyways. Sprinkle in a little CSS to set the font settings and you'd probably be okay.

What problems were you having specifically with cross-browser support? Maybe someone can help you resolve them.



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