View Full Version : Browse Happier

06-08-2005, 08:56 AM
Something that has irked me a lot lately is all the trolling about web browsers.

You often see Opera fanboys squaring off against Mozillians, fueled by Asa's and Ben's occasional brash remarks (Opera Lies (http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/asa/archives/008289.html) being the most recent one), and Safari folks complaining that Konqueror developers are just whiny (and Konq people proclaiming eternal hatred for Apple fanboys).

Thoughts? Feelings? I use Camino primarily, and occasionally fire up Safari and Opera 8.01. Camino leaves me the happiest, but I am always pleasantly surprised at how identical my code works in these three browsers. And Opera has caught to Mozilla in "niftiness" factor lately (HTMLElement prototyping, highly customizable form elements, native SVG, etc).

But I don't bash anybody involved (except Microsoft). I'm perhaps most sympathetic to the KDE folks, as they wrote an excellent browser that is largely ignored, and most people subconciously credit Apple for now anyway.

In any case, we should do two things to make the web a better place:
1) Stop being such obnoxious browser fanboys. Firefox is better than IE/Opera/Safari... well, not always. Depends on what you want. So don't convince everyone of this. Firefox offers superior XML support/Javascript abilities/DOM. Ok, that's fair. Opera is fastest! Well, no. I'm inclined to think Safari 2.0 might take that cake, but you can't compare these things. Opera is fast! Now, that's a better statement to make.

2) Start a browsehappyd*mnit.com campaign, to supplement the existing browsehappy.com one.

06-08-2005, 06:54 PM
I use Safari mainly (currently trying out the latest WebKit CVS, which means it passes Acid2 amongst other bug fixes).

As for the bashing, I'm on the KDE's devs side on the Safari issue. As for bashing, only MS for me :p

06-08-2005, 09:44 PM
The first step would be unstickifying the New Firefox and Thunderbird Releases (http://codingforums.com/showthread.php?t=47033) (or add a thread for each UA, to be fair).

Stop being such obnoxious browser fanboys.
Yes, browser fanpeople should be civil (and stop contradicting themselves).

Start a browsehappyd*mnit.com campaign.
No, not another damn campaign, even in jest... it's a crime! :D

06-08-2005, 10:35 PM
I prefer to use IE. I agree that some people around here should stop being obnoxious browser fanboys and stop trying to be "Web Browsing Heroes". I often get bashed w/ loads of crap about why IE is bad, and it is in fact pissing me off and wanting me to go w/ IE even more :) I like IE because it seems faster than FF, but that's pretty much the only reason.



But I don't bash anybody involved (except Microsoft).

Isn't that exactly what you are trying to get people to stop doing, bashing and fanboying...

You are being a hypocrit... bashing Microsoft yet rallying for anti-bashing..

Don't mean to be harsh, but it seems you are being very dumb by saying that statement (But I don't bash anybody involved (except Microsoft).)

06-08-2005, 10:48 PM
Well if someone asks for it, they should be bashed. But hopefully Microsoft won't be having that much more if IE7 proves to be worthwhile.

As for being browsehappy, yes indeed, it is something that I would like to see more of, and a disintegration of references such as IEvil which has been used often by a few even when a question has no need to discuss the status or position of IE.

If there is a community out there, I'd be all for it.

06-09-2005, 01:41 AM
Well if someone asks for it, they should be bashed. But hopefully Microsoft won't be having that much more if IE7 proves to be worthwhile.
You're dreaming mate .. it's not gonna. We'll be lucky if it's marginally better from a developer perspective.

But whatever ... technology facism is rife in all IT sub-industries ... it used to be IE vs Netscape 4 .. now it's everybody else vs IE .. and this whole firefox vs safari vs opera thing is as silly as oasis vs blur. Who cares what other people think? Use what you want...

From a non-developer point of view it's a very different game - what makes a browser good for using the web is not necessarily the same as what it makes it good from a standards or technology perspective. And I think when developers say they prefer "firefox", what they really mean is the gecko rendering engine, as much as the browser that has lots of extensions.

All the modern browsers - Opera, Safari, Konqueror, Firefox, Camino, Netscape, all the other moz browsers .. - they all have different things to offer interface wise, but all offer reasonably similar standards support - a properly built CSS layout only has IE to deal with most of the time, to the most extent, the others have fairly much got a consistent handle on it by now.

What I use personally varies - mostly Opera, but sometimes Firefox on Windows, and sometimes Camino or Safari - depends on what I'm doing. Sometimes even IE ... gotta love those hooks into COM, dangerous as they are ;)

06-09-2005, 03:51 AM
Scooteraj, I don't bash Microsoft because they make Internet Explorer and I prefer Firefox/Safari/Opera/whatever. I bash Microsoft because they are intentionally holding the web back just to hold on their already fading browser monopoly. This is a topic for another thread (not really worthy of a thread anyway), so I'm not going to continue on it. But Internet Explorer is a fine browser if you're minimalistic and are fully patched, and competing with it is one of the big reasons behind the supremely high quality nature of Firefox/Safari/Opera.

06-09-2005, 07:39 AM
and this whole firefox vs safari vs opera thing is as silly as oasis vs blur.


...but those are three good browsers and two really cr@p bands. How can you compare? ;)

06-09-2005, 08:43 AM
I don't see IE7 being a better browser all together, I however do think that it would be easier to develop for if it supported what it's main rivals (Firefox etc) do.

I use Firefox primarily for browsing as I am on a Windows machine at home. I've used Camino but I can't say I didn't like it much.

All the browsers have diffferent UIs, but as Brothercake said, they offer the same kind of deal in terms of support for web standards....well except Ievil. Opera is [I think] the first browser to support native SVG so I can see developers using it more in the future.

06-09-2005, 10:36 AM
Opera is [I think] the first browser to support native SVG so I can see developers using it more in the future.

No. Mozilla was *by years*. Opera, however, was the first to ship official builds with it enabled. But that is another topic.