Starting Out

[chilipie]

Ok, I know this question has been asked before, but I'd like to hear some answers that are specific to me ( :rolleyes: ).

My level of work:
http://www.chilipie.co.uk/
http://sazzie.chilipie.co.uk/ (I know the content is BS, but I didn't write it :D .)
http://ywda.chilipie.co.uk/

To be honest, I know sod all about server-side stuff ( :eek: ), but I'm a dab hand at that XHTML/CSS thingy if I may say so myself ;) . My graphic design isn't brilliant, but I feel that it's got a hell of a lot better, thanks to Gary in particular :thumbsup: .

So, what kind of prices should I be charging :confused: ? And more importantly, how should I start out. As far as I can see, it's kind of like climbing up Everest - it's hard to get there, but once you're up, you're up for as long as you like.

I haven't done any paid work yet, and I'm not really sure where to start. Should I be approaching charities/non-profit organisations, offering to do work for free, or should I aim high and try to get some paid work (if you really want to know, I'm saving up for a Mac, so I can get off this godforsaken Windows machine :p )?

Thanks :) ,

[mcdougals4all]

I haven't done any paid work yet, and I'm not really sure where to start. Should I be approaching charities/non-profit organisations, offering to do work for free, or should I aim high and try to get some paid work

It's almost inevitable you'll have to start for next-to-nothing as far as developing your portfolio.

My only advice would be to choose your projects carefully. If you're essentailly working for free, make sure it is site that has enough traffic to give you some valuable exposure.

And when starting a project (paid or otherwise), come to clear a agreement with the client on scope, compensation, deadline, etc.

Price is really a judgement call. How much is your time worth to you? How efficient are you? In my opinion, these are things you kind of have to determine as you go.

Honestly though, I'd say don't sweat it. Your work is good for any age, just keep doing what you're doing and the paid work will come.

[Kurt@BInvisions]

If you're unsure how much to charge for web development, it's always better to calculate based on amount of time spent on the project. Rather than just making a guess.

[chilipie]

My only advice would be to choose your projects carefully. If you're essentailly working for free, make sure it is site that has enough traffic to give you some valuable exposure.

Good point. I was thinking about doing one for my school, but they don't really get much traffic ... on the other hand, even if only a few people see it, it might spread round (word of mouth and all that).


Price is really a judgement call. How much is your time worth to you? How efficient are you? In my opinion, these are things you kind of have to determine as you go.

How much time - it depends really. Some weeks I have 3/4 hours a night, other times I'm only on the computer for 20 minutes. Bloody homework :mad: . Efficiency - chilipie took about a week (mainly because of problems with the contact form; the design itself only took me 2 days) The others took about 1/2 days. Sometimes I can spend a whole day on the computer and get nothing done, but others I'll sit down for 2 hours and I'll make a layout in PS, slice it up and code it. I think there's a lot more motivation if you're working for someone else - you've got to work harder, and it's actually quite interesting sometimes, especially when you're working to a particularly tight deadline ;) .

If you're unsure how much to charge for web development, it's always better to calculate based on amount of time spent on the project. Rather than just making a guess.

I've heard both good and bad things about charging hourly... If it was just a small site, I think it makes more sense just to have a set payment - if it's a big site, then charging hourly would make more sense I suppose, because there are more things that are likely to go wrong/take longer.

[Xko]

To chuck something else into the argument...

What about 'after sales support' - maybe it's woth thinking about that too.

And what will happen if something 'goes wrong' etc etc.

[chilipie]

What about 'after sales support' - maybe it's woth thinking about that too.

I suppose if it's in the contract that you'll design/build the site, upload it, buy the domain etc. but you'll only do the one job - if they want support they'll have to hire you again.

[Xko]

Suppose, but might be worth mentioning it before you sign anything.

And like was previously suggested, i'd go for a flat fee to start with.

[chilipie]

Anyone else care to chime in :) ?

[rmedek]

Nope.

Ok, just kidding. :D Here's my take on things...

(I was going to type something but I remembered I did earlier for another thread and it's pretty relevant-- and I'm lazy-- so here's the link... http://codingforums.com/showpost.php?p=273884&postcount=7)

I should add on to my example that although I've been charging "by the hour" it doesn't mean I rack up time for brewing coffee, looking through Google, cursing at the CF searches when I have to wade through non-descriptive titles, etc... I usually estimate how much of my "billable" time it'll take me to do a project, then give the client an estimate based on that time.

Just my opinions, but I hope it helps :)

[Jalenack]

Sometimes I can spend a whole day on the computer and get nothing done, but others I'll sit down for 2 hours and I'll make a layout in PS, slice it up and code it.

myself too! That happens all the time. Connections and portfolio are the two most important IMO. Here's a story: I found a guy on craigslist looking for a website redesign, offering $150. Not grand, but I thought "what the heck, I'll try it" So I contact him, and the project takes off. So I work way over time, andproduce an excellent product. He likes it so much he offers me $50 extra without prompting and a job at his company. So I may not have made a lot of money on that project, but it ended up doing great things for me in the end. My first day at work is tuesday!!

I'd get in touch with your relatives perhaps. My dad has an old decrepit site that I revamped for him. My uncle just contacted me wanting a redesign for his site. And I'm gunning for a website for my cousin. It can be a great place to start off. Word of mouth is truly underrated

Saving for a mac! good plan.

[harbingerOTV]

Not to ressurect an old thread (although it's not that old ;) ) and not to jump on chilipie's topic like this but I didn't want to start a new thread about this.

I have only done one site for some friends. It's paid for by a barter system really. That's another story. Today I was approched by a co-worker that has a friend that wants a site. He just asked me flat out what I wanted to do it. I asked the usual stuff about what he wanted etc. He really didn't know. So I went out to work some and when I got back I gave him an estimate.

$250 for the site. 5 pages. Contact form etc. Nothing grand. I had to basically think about what the guy was selling and what all a simple site would entail. A Home/About/Products/Testimonials/Contact page. I also mentioned that I would write up a readme file so that they could understand where to put additional information. Basically breaking down the HTML of each page and show them how to add pics/text without screwing things up.

So what I think I based this on was that I figure the layout will obviously take the longest and then all the subsequent pages are a lot of copy/paste jobs with a little added CSS to make them layout right. So like 3 work days should suffice. So 24 hours...$250.

Sound resonable?