Pro opinions on Fireworks?

[rmedek]

Holy smokes. I just tried Fireworks for the first time and I am hooked. This has got to be the best image editor out there for web designers-- vector everything; instant color, border, and effects; editable layer masks; color palettes sampled from previous art... blah blah etc.

I've been honing my Photoshop skills for a bit (whatever that's worth) but I can see myself diving into Fireworks fully. I'm sure you pro pixel-pushers have opinions on the matter (it seems Fireworks vs. Photoshop is a pretty heated debate from what I read through Google)...

I don't really have tons of time to learn both deeply (and I am only semi-pro in the web design field), so what I am wondering is if there is any specific thing that Fireworks CAN'T do that Photoshop can.

Discuss?

[4xz]

Fireworks is da best.

[JamieR]

I'm not a pro at Graphic design (more like a semi pro at web design:cool:) but I must say that I find Fireworks a lot better to use than Paint Shop Pro - I think it is in between PSP and Photoshop really.

I particularly like it's easy of use and price tag. OK, it's more expensive than Paint Shop Pro, but it is still more affordable than Adobe Photoshop and you can get great results from it. However I still like Photoshop:p

[bradyj]

I think fireworks has much better file compression (not to mention it outputs 32-bit pngs, and photoshop still doesn't), and I typically bring my photoshop graphics into fireworks to output when I'm going to web just to see if I can squeeze a few more bytes out of it, which usually happens.

However, some of the high end advanced techniques for photo-retouching, rebuilding, and advanced designing can't really compare in quality to photoshop. Not to mention those of us who do print and web learn the limitations of fireworks very quickly.

So, for the majority of web graphics, fireworks is a winner. For some of the high-end design needs - and definately if your work is for print, photoshop is the clear winner.

Example would be when I do freelance for GAP photos -- they come in raw from the photographer obviously. I now need to color correct each piece of the photo (and I mean each piece, I'll mask out fingernails, different shade layers of hair, jewelry, some highlights, some shadows, different elements of the face structure -- different elements of the background) to the point where my final file is easily over 100 layers, and about a gig in size. This photo would be used for print AND web, so you start out with the print color correction/needs/re-build and, of course, then just take your print version (300dpi and up at full size depending on the output device) and downsize it for the web. For that scenario, fireworks would die quickly with my 1gig file, and without the advanced tools I need... and eventually, you'll do a design that needs to go print and web:)

The same thing can be said of Freehand vs. Illustrator. Freehand has a load more capabilities (multi-pages that are varying sizes); in a sense it can output like it's a page layout program (quark/indesign), some output like fireworks, etc. Some of the advanced output techniques of illustrator, and if anything the interpolation between illustrator/photoshop alone, cannot be reproduced effectively with Freehand.

That's a general answer, though long winded :p

[Abhoth]

I love the Fireworks...! Having said that---

As mentioned above, PhotoShop has the corner on the print market... if you're going to take it to print then PS is it.....

Fireworks really wasn't built to compete with PS, or PSP for that matter, it was built as a webdesigncentric application. The fact that they did such a great job with it brings about this sort of question.

If I'm not going to print with it, Fireworks is my baby!

[JamieR]

True - Photoshop is still the favourite of the professional print and web designer. I use Photoshop, Fireworks and PSP, well I've never really liked PSP as it is too basic and is limited in what it does.

However, as I say above ^^ Fireworks is in between the price tags of Paint Shop Pro and Photoshop, so it is a good choice for a lot of people.

[4xz]

What I like about Fireworks, is it's 100% orientation towards webdesign. It has all the features u need to create great websites + tons of export routines to take away a lot of coding.

[rmedek]

This photo would be used for print AND web, so you start out with the print color correction/needs/re-build and, of course, then just take your print version (300dpi and up at full size depending on the output device) and downsize it for the web. For that scenario, fireworks would die quickly with my 1gig file, and without the advanced tools I need... and eventually, you'll do a design that needs to go print and web:)
I don't know about that last one... I'm not sure who's going to want a printed replicate of my hack web designs :D:D About the file sizes, that's one thing I've heard (and experienced) about Fireworks-- it's a memory and resource hog. So far there hasn't been any trouble, but I'm thinking about trading in my overpowered-for-my-needs G4 laptop in for a newer iMac and I'm wondering if it'll be able to handle it.
+ tons of export routines to take away a lot of coding.
Bad web designer! Bad! No coding with applications! :)

Although I have to admit, I made a comp last night for my client and posted it online, it's a full bloated code nightmare (of course) but a great way to put a working example of a website online without hand-coding it. I can create a semi-working example of my image mockup to get a feel for navigation fast, and layout changes are a piece of cake.

All in all it looks like Photoshop is leaving the Dock and taking a deserved rest for awhile, at least until I need to learn how to seriously push a pixel or two...

[mindlessLemming]

Rich-- Andy Clarke has posted a few decent articles on Fireworks for web design:
http://www.stuffandnonsense.co.uk/archives/something_about_fireworks_day_2.html
http://www.stuffandnonsense.co.uk/archives/fireworks_and_xml_pt1.html

I know there where more, but you'll have to go digging through his archives page to find them:
http://www.stuffandnonsense.co.uk/archives.html

:)

P.S - Nothing touches photoshop, that's why Apple design their computers solely around that application :p (here comes the flame war!)

[rmedek]

Hey Andrew, thanks for the links... although I have to admit that those articles are how I learned about Fireworks in the first place! :D Seems like we think alike, or at least read the same blogs (does ANY web designer NOT read those blogs?)

About Apple...

... so pretty... smooth fonts... Aqua interface... come out of the dark side... come, Andrew... join us... Aaaa Puuulllll, Aaaa Pulllllll...

Is it working yet?

[mindlessLemming]

Seems like we think alike, or at least read the same blogs (does ANY web designer NOT read those blogs?)

http://blo.gs/7938/favorites.html ;)


... so pretty... smooth fonts... Aqua interface... come out of the dark side... come, Andrew... join us... Aaaa Puuulllll, Aaaa Pulllllll...

Is it working yet?

I've been to the 'light side' (?) before, I spent two years using a (then top-spec) G3 with over half a million bucks in peripherals. ( LCD printer, large format hexachrome inkjet, lots of awesome scanners...drooool!)

But you'll never turn me. NEVER!
Though longhorn will turn me -- whether I go to mac or linux is yet to be decided. Probably both :(

[4xz]

Bad web designer! Bad! No coding with applications! :)



This u gotta explain. You make a design and implement it without any coding ?

[cfc]

This u gotta explain. You make a design and implement it without any coding ?

I think he meant that you can't have the application do the coding for you ( :p ) and was being sarcastic (sp?).

It's been a long time, but I remember learning PS in comm. tech. in grade 10 and not thinking it was very difficult to use at the time. I have fireworks now and know how to use it to some degree after reading the graphic design basics tutorial. I must say it's easier (and cleaner IMO) to use than even the GIMP, but I've been using the GIMP (however badly) for a long time now and it's going to be hard to switch (if I decide to). My computer actually came with a trial of PSP on it, but I've mostly left it alone...

My plan -- Use GIMP for creating simple bitmaps, and Fireworks to put it all together. At least with the GIMP, the plug-ins are free...

[rmedek]

Yes, what cfc said :p

I've found, in the few weeks I've been messing w/ Fireworks, that it's extremely easy to use and logical in its setup; it makes for a quck learning experience. It's already saved me tons of time in changing a layout I'm working on to match suggestions by the client. I've been switching to PS for a little pixel pushing here and there, but I think I can get about 90% of my web stuff done on it...

@cfc- I'd give PSP a shot... I've always thought PSP was an EXTREMELY underrated product; I would be using it now but Jasc doesn't make a Mac version...

[JamieR]

Yes, what cfc said :p

I've found, in the few weeks I've been messing w/ Fireworks, that it's extremely easy to use and logical in its setup; it makes for a quck learning experience. It's already saved me tons of time in changing a layout I'm working on to match suggestions by the client. I've been switching to PS for a little pixel pushing here and there, but I think I can get about 90% of my web stuff done on it...

@cfc- I'd give PSP a shot... I've always thought PSP was an EXTREMELY underrated product; I would be using it now but Jasc doesn't make a Mac version...

I generally like PSP, however there are a lot of things that I would rather do in Photoshop, such as editing photos etc...as I believe that it handles this far better than PSP does...
Also, I just discovered that PaintShopPro is written in Python :eek: ..wondering about Photoshop now :eek:

As for Fireworks, I like it more than PSP, but not as much as Photoshop - with fireworks you can do simple things in PSP and Fireworks faster than in Photoshop...well that is my opinion when I try and crop something:p

BTW - Micro$oft Virtual PC 7 is great..I have it on My Powerbook :thumbsup:

[rmedek]

I generally like PSP, however there are a lot of things that I would rather do in Photoshop, such as editing photos etc...as I believe that it handles this far better than PSP does...
Also, I just discovered that PaintShopPro is written in Python :eek: ..wondering about Photoshop now :eek:
Photoshop: $799. Paint Shop Pro: $79. That leaves me with $720 to spend on stock photos to make up for my lack of artistic ability.

PSP could be written in Sanskrit for all I care :D, it does the job well and cheaply. Although I know it doesn't come close to Photoshop, but see above...

[JamieR]

Photoshop: $799. Paint Shop Pro: $79. That leaves me with $720 to spend on stock photos to make up for my lack of artistic ability.

PSP could be written in Sanskrit for all I care :D, it does the job well and cheaply. Although I know it doesn't come close to Photoshop, but see above...

hehe..true - PSP and Fireworks are great for the price compared to Photoshop - I think FW is about $299 :eek: