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View Full Version : IE is Risky, what should we do?



Pyroclasm
07-02-2004, 06:26 PM
Hey guys, i dunno if anyone already covered this already, but in case not, I wanna hear your perspective on this. I mainly use IE and never thought to use another web browser. :(

The below paragraph was obtained from:
http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/jun2004/tc20040629_7734_tc120.htm

The biggest security problem in IE, one that has plagued Microsoft and its customers for at least four years and is at the heart of the recent exploit, is a flaw that lets a Web site trick the browser into running an alien program in violation of its own security settings. In effect, an unknown program on a Web site is treated as though it were a trusted program on your computer. Compromised Web sites can covertly install programs ranging from nuisances that cause ad pop-ups to real threats that record your keystrokes, allowing the site to steal your passwords and account information.

jkd
07-02-2004, 06:51 PM
An excellent excuse to try Mozilla Firefox (www.mozilla.org) or Opera 7.5 (www.opera.com). I much prefer Firefox, but some people really like Opera. As for Firefox, there are no publicly known remote root exploits or privacy holes AFAIK, and whenever there are, they are fixed within a few days (if not the same day) and the fixes are reflected in the nightlies. If it's serious enough, they immediately release a new point release. Security is excellent in Firefox.

whackaxe
07-02-2004, 07:41 PM
with what you said, I feel like letting loose a whole load of anti-microsoft propaganda. but i'll refrain :)

you'll be needing Firefox
http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/

apart from excellent security, firefox is made by peple who's primary concern is the user, not money, it has a built in pop up blocker, built in search bar (for whatever engine you may choose), lots of extensions and themes. it's lovely.

does anyone have an URL of a firefox vs IE article?

Willy Duitt
07-02-2004, 08:18 PM
does anyone have an URL of a firefox vs IE article?

June 17, 2004 (http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/249)

trib4lmaniac
07-02-2004, 08:25 PM
13 reasons To Use Firefox Over IE (http://www.flexbeta.net/main/articles.php?action=show&id=32)

Meltdown
07-03-2004, 02:42 AM
I've been using Firefox for quite a while and have fallen in love with it. I've vowed to never go back to IE.

squirellplaying
07-04-2004, 06:18 AM
I've been using Firefox for quite a while and have fallen in love with it. I've vowed to never go back to IE.
I completely concur. Especially with the developers toolbar in 0.9.

Pyroclasm
07-04-2004, 08:47 AM
Thanks guys, I've downloaded Firefox and it amazing, cool features. Its funny that not a lot of ppl know about IE's security problems, and they go about day to day, enjoying IE worry free.

whackaxe
07-04-2004, 11:08 AM
told ya so :) now spread the word

Heywood
07-04-2004, 07:39 PM
I try to avoid anti M$ propoganda as well, but the truth is, they are starting to slip more and more, and their eventual downfall from the top thats been predicted for years, is closer to reality, but still really, really far away.

Spyware is one of those things that came in under the radar, an overnight problem that nobody really predicted, and IE has never been truly equipped to battle it. Newer browsers are being designed with spyware in mind. IE's deep roots means that significant code work will need to be done (that most likely will be overlooked until the last minute, as always) to prevent the nasty effects of spyware.

The only good thing about spyware is, it could be Firefox's ticket to the big time. Personally, I love firefox and would like to see it flourish into a a mature product, and I think this is one thing that will help a lot

Grant Palin
07-06-2004, 05:35 PM
I had Mozilla already, but downloaded Firefox to give it a try, and I was amazed! Nice clean interface, TABS!, fast browsing, customizing options galore...Incredible!

I know about the problems of IE...less standards compliant, security holes, etc. But, I've always liked it. I like IE's look and feel more than Navigator's (that's just me). But now, I'm starting to reconsider that standpoint. Firefox's look and feel is quite nice, and works a lot better. Plus, Mozilla and Opera look and work better than IE (I recently downloaded them as well, so I could test my website in more browsers).

I guess the main problem with IE is that it's inextricably (spelling?) built into Windows, and can't be removed. And because of this, it has a huge market share (the lion's share). And that's unfortunate.

However, I'm thinking I might make Firefox my default browser for a while, and see how that wroks.

P.S. Since Mozilla and Firefox are both web browsers, and come fromt he same company, is it necessary to use both? Or can I remove Mozilla and just use Firefox?

me'
07-06-2004, 06:52 PM
I had Mozilla already, but downloaded Firefox to give it a try, and I was amazed! Nice clean interface, TABS!, fast browsing, customizing options galore...Incredible!

I know about the problems of IE...less standards compliant, security holes, etc. But, I've always liked it. I like IE's look and feel more than Navigator's (that's just me). But now, I'm starting to reconsider that standpoint. Firefox's look and feel is quite nice, and works a lot better. Plus, Mozilla and Opera look and work better than IE (I recently downloaded them as well, so I could test my website in more browsers).I can't do anything about the 'feel', but be sure to check out the themes list (http://update.mozilla.org/themes/?application=firefox) (well, the main one at least, it's only one of many I suppose) to make Firefox anything you want it to be, with basically a single-click.



However, I'm thinking I might make Firefox my default browser for a while, and see how that wroks.Go for it. You might just like it! Seriously, after switching, most people never look back.


P.S. Since Mozilla and Firefox are both web browsers, and come fromt he same company, is it necessary to use both? Or can I remove Mozilla and just use Firefox?Yeah, I think Firefox is actually more popular than Mozilla now. It certainly is among the bloggers who I frequent. I just love the fact that it's so lightweight. I never wanted an email client, WYSIWYG editor and all that. The only advantage of Mozilla over Firefox that I can think of is its 1.7 status. Nevertheless, Firefox will hit the big 1.0 pretty soon.

Grant Palin
07-08-2004, 05:05 PM
Well, I've had Firefox as my default browser for a few days now, and I'll tell you, I like it! It's fast, it doesn't crash like IE does, and the look and feel is great!

Well, I guess you've got another pro-Firefox and anti-IE in your ranks! :D

Roy Sinclair
07-09-2004, 10:08 PM
Of course you all need to run out and get the Mozilla and Firefox updates released today. It seems there's a bug in those browsers that can be exploited on Windows systems.

Bugs are everywhere and this probably won't be the last problem like this ever found in Gecko based browser but without the integration into the OS and other features that IE sports the Gecko based browsers are a lot less likely to host as many of this kind of bugs.

neofibril
07-10-2004, 01:22 AM
Can anyone tell me how to install (or where to put) the "shellblock.xpi" extension?

There seemed to be no instructions on the update site... :confused:

Security Update - ShellBlock (http://update.mozilla.org/extensions/moreinfo.php?id=154)

The Install Now link title says "Install Shellblock 1.0 (Right-click to Download)"

Ok, I have the file... so, then what?

silenus
07-10-2004, 01:50 AM
Don't right click it. Just left clicking will do it.

neofibril
07-10-2004, 01:54 AM
Opening the file in the browser does nothing for me... maybe its just a personal problem :p

I'm open to suggestions. Meanwhile, I'll be Googling...

neofibril
07-10-2004, 02:04 AM
Yeah, it was a personal problem; I had the "Enable software installation" setting unchecked.

Sorry, that was my first update... :o

plutoniumman
07-10-2004, 07:00 AM
I really recommend not using IE, because I've found a lot less spyware and my PC hasnt been hijacked since I started using netscape.

MattJakel
07-12-2004, 03:07 AM
IE is definitely not a good choice. I had my computer running with it for years, during which I would find about 50 spyware objects with Ad-aware (http://www.lavasoftusa.com/software/adaware/) per week. I changed to Mozilla about 2 or 3 months ago and since then Ad-aware has only found 1 object.

Open source is the way to go! :thumbsup:

Ben@WEBProp
07-12-2004, 07:19 PM
One site you all should be a part of:

http://www.dasdua.org

Roy Sinclair
07-12-2004, 08:26 PM
Yeah, it was a personal problem; I had the "Enable software installation" setting unchecked.

Sorry, that was my first update... :o

I know that place! I downloaded a bunch of themes only to discover I didn't have them because I left that box unchecked.

]|V|[agnus
07-13-2004, 04:54 AM
this may sound lame, but uh...

great thread. seriously. you can't write that... ;)

to contribute to the discussion, i think there are things to be said for open-source, and there are definitely things to be said for free-enterprise, well, domination, but ultimately what it comes down to is: Microsoft made a really smart move by integrating IE. From a capitalist standpoint and just because it was a pretty rational idea. But it's coming to bite them in the arse now because they were sloppy. they underestimated the strength of people who give a dang. People who actually care about ideals and can see past the green. Also, people who are just (pardonez-moi) assholes. i.e. Hackers that do serious amounts of damage just to prove a point. I think there comes a point when you're no better than the guy that mails bombs to people to do the same. (He wrote a really interesting book, though, that guy...) But the point is that because of some of those jerks, stuff was probably exposed that helped prepare more flexible newcomers like Firefox. It all goes around..

Because of people concerned about the user, extensibility, accessibility, flexibility, and shiny, multi-tinted, flag-waving batons twirlers... MS is going down...

(Honestly, I think the end could (and hopefully will be!) sooner than people think. Though, the end does not have to mean "a bunch of people laid off and marooned for the rest of their lives." They should split MS up into a chain of miniature golf courses. There aren't enough around, if you ask me.)

Roy Sinclair
07-13-2004, 07:59 PM
One site you all should be a part of:

http://www.dasdua.org

Remember when IE was the best browser in regards to implementing standards?

Remember fighting against the bad code and pathetic hacks you had to implement to support Netscape users?

Remember looking at all the really cool things you could do if you just didn't have to support those older browsers?

While it reflects today and my sentiments in general that particular web site ignores the past. The only difference is that the browser I used to look forward to being able to do better things with is now the browser I wish would get fixed or failing that just go away. The browser names have changed but the situation is still the same. I wonder which browser will be the next one to occupy that bottom rung on the ladder.

]|V|[agnus
07-13-2004, 08:06 PM
A good point, but I don't think it's quite the same.

Back then, it seems to me it was everybody for themselves, "standards" be damned.

Now, as far as I can tell, you've got everybody up to an acceptable line EXCEPT IE. Yes, of course NOBODY still has it PERFECT, and nobody ever will. But EVERYBODY EXCEPT IE has paid heed to the desires and practical needs of developers and users with eyes focused on the future.

That seems to be the important difference I see.

That said, I hate IE, but that DASDUA site is just sensationalist, anti-IE propaganda. It's fun, but I bet 80-90% of their audience are people that already hated IE anyway, so it's kind of a pointless thing...

Grant Palin
07-13-2004, 08:33 PM
Remember when IE was the best browser in regards to implementing standards?

Remember fighting against the bad code and pathetic hacks you had to implement to support Netscape users?

Remember looking at all the really cool things you could do if you just didn't have to support those older browsers?

It is quite the irony that IE once was the preferred browser for standards-based web development, and that it is now in the same position that Navigator was in a few years ago.

]|V|[agnus
07-13-2004, 08:50 PM
I think they call that "poetic justice" or "what goes around, comes around..." or "the circle of life" or "HAHA!"

Grant Palin
07-13-2004, 09:06 PM
|V|[agnus']I think they call that "poetic justice" or "what goes around, comes around..." or "the circle of life" or "HAHA!"
Well put! :thumbsup:

kwhubby
07-24-2004, 10:54 AM
I really hope that Microsoft speeds up there pace to standards, and security and can once again like the old days become a great browser. Microsoft has survived the years of beating and many improvements in there products have been made (such as the development of windows xp). But it is at a point were MS is slacking and needs to speed up there pace again with much focus to there browser. It is a shame why Microsoft hasn't been able to keep up to much smaller companies, when they are the richest in the world. It is terrible for the average computer user with what annoyances they have to live with that Microsoft should have easily prevented by spending more of there nearly infinite money into the products.

Lorian
07-26-2004, 03:48 PM
I hate Internet Explorer, it just annoys me, the only time I use it is when I'm working on local pages because if I put an image as /images/whatever.jpg Firefox can't find it but IE realises that it's on the hard drive and displays it, that's the only reason that it's still on my desktop

MattJakel
07-28-2004, 05:47 AM
I hate Internet Explorer, it just annoys me, the only time I use it is when I'm working on local pages because if I put an image as /images/whatever.jpg Firefox can't find it but IE realises that it's on the hard drive and displays it, that's the only reason that it's still on my desktop

In Firefox, just use file:///C:\images\whatever.jpg... It's always worked for me with HTML pages, and I assume it works with images too...

Microsoft's downfall will be directly related to their disregard for security. They continuously update the look and usability of their software and OS without fixing security problems. If Microsoft wants to have a chance at surviving another 10 years, they'd better do some serious thinking about these security issues. They don't really need to think though, just look at Linux, placing permissions on the important files so that only the root account can write to them.

Matt

Drakain Zeil
09-02-2004, 07:53 PM
My suggestion is to use an OS that can't run IE... without a little WINE anyway. ;).

I'm using the newest version of Fire Fox with the developer's toolbar, it's awesome, I suggest you get it.

whackaxe
09-02-2004, 07:58 PM
<sarcsam>
thanks for that conclusion. you know no-one (in a web dev community too!) suggested Firefox in this 2 month old thread.
</sarcasm>

Drakain Zeil
09-02-2004, 08:08 PM
Do'h! Didn't notice the oldness.



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