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View Full Version : Request for Proposal (RFP): Migrate Access 2002 db to MS IE 3.0



etalent
04-29-2004, 08:48 PM
This is a Request for Proposals (RFP) to do the work described in this post for pay.

Description:
Think Javascript arrays... I need to migrate the database I created with Microsoft Access 2002 on Windows XP to Pocket Internet Explorer (same as IE 3.0) on NEC Mobilepro 780 HPC.

Target Platform:
Pocket Internet Explorer (same as IE 3.0) on Windows Ce handheld (HPC) device. Javascript, JScript, and HTML 3.2 compatible. No support for Java, VbScript, CSS, DHTML, or frames. Screen dimensions are 640 pixels wide by 214 pixels tall. The OS of the handheld device (HPC) is Windows Ce 2.11. The system architecture is MIPS 4121.

Source Prototype:
The Access 2002 database prototype is fully functional and ready to email to you as a zip file. It has 14 fully normalized (optimized) tables, only 4 of which have relationships between them. It has 2 forms, with text boxes as the only controls except for 2 combo boxes and (many) labels. Each of the 2 forms have multiple pages (tabs).

Specified Deliverables:
I want to migrate the database, including the forms, their controls, the tables, and the (in-process) HTML help system to Pocket Internet Explorer on the H/PC by utilizing Javascript arrays and web-based forms and controls.

Compensation:
Please make me an offer, but be fair and reasonable. I am an individual, not a company. I'm doing this project to help myself on a trip this summer.

Deadline:
Completion of beta deliverable by mid May '04. Completion of final deliverable by the end of May.

-Dave

Alex Vincent
04-30-2004, 12:54 AM
Offtopic: I'm having a little trouble conceptualizing how this would be done. With JS and HTML alone, the database itself would be read-only. More to the point, JS doesn't really lend itself well to relational tables design.

etalent: If you find someone to do this project for you, I'd appreciate finding out how they did it :thumbsup: JS doesn't lend itself well to high-precision arithmetic either, but I did write a library to do that...

Mhtml
04-30-2004, 09:00 AM
A lil OT, I'm curious about that lib you mentioned (eg how you made and implement it) .. perhaps you can PM me with the details :)..

raf
04-30-2004, 10:35 AM
I don't understand what you are trying to do.
I don't understand why the complete backend should be changed just because the generated html will be displayed by another user agent. If this IE 3.0 can display html, then you can just use a db at the backend, and dynamically build the html-pages with a server side language like PHP or ASP or JSP or ...

This very same backend can then also be used to generate the same or similar html pages for another browser.

etalent
04-30-2004, 03:55 PM
Thanks for your reply.

I researched EXTENSIVELY regarding relational database development with forms and SQL on the target platform (Win Ce 2.11 handheld). PHP, ASP, JPS are not supported on Pocket IE (same as IE 3.0).

The nearest thing I found that works for developing "native" databases in the target environment is Syware Visual Ce ($130), but the newest version does not support the target platform, so cab files would have to be downloaded from Syware to make Visual Ce backward compatible.

That whole idea stopped making sense when I realized that I already have a development environment in Pocket IE, albeit version 3.0. Still, if IE 3.0 can do Javascript, which it can, it suffices.

Pocket Access is the database included with Win Ce 2.11 on my handheld. If you're an Embedded Visual Basic programmer then that would be the obvious IDEAL solution. The biggest limitation I am aware of is that Pocket Access has a 67,000 record limit. Darn.

Please understand that I am not trying to complicate things. On the contrary, I've learned enough about what I'm trying to do to be dangerous. My prototype database works great on my desktop. Life would be wonderful if all I had to do was drag and drop it using ActiveSync, but no such luck.

Suggest away, please. Seeing my prototype Access 2002 database for yourself would clarify most everything, I bet. If you were just look to at it and then envision what it would take to emulate it on the target platform of Pocket IE or the equivalent IE 3.0.

I really look forward to hearing back from you!

-Dave

raf
04-30-2004, 04:07 PM
Are you saying that you want to use webtechnology, but only the client side technology (in casu javascript and HTLM) ? And that you need a datasctructure of more then 67 000 records without using a database ? So that you would like to have a few pages that include a javascript array of more then 67 000 elements ?

etalent
04-30-2004, 04:15 PM
Client side javascript and HTML only. Correct.

I would rather not have a 67,000 record limitation.

Correct me if I'm wrong, please, but my understanding of arrays is that they are simply Javascript's way of doing databases.

If you can use Pocket Access as a backend rather than Javascript arrays, good. If you can get around the 67,000 record limtation, even better.

As numbers of pages goes, the prototype Access 2002 database has two forms. Each form has multiple pages (tabs). However, all the controls are text boxes with the exception of exactly two combo boxes and a bunch of labels.

Please keep asking me questions if I'm not being clear! -Thanks

Vladdy
04-30-2004, 04:48 PM
Why am I getting this feeling that you are trying to do something simple in a very complicated way. Maybe if you started by describing your application and required functionality......

Spookster
04-30-2004, 06:35 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, please, but my understanding of arrays is that they are simply Javascript's way of doing databases.

No not at all. An array in any language is simply a collection of related variables stored in memory. A database is a medium for storing data in files.

etalent
04-30-2004, 07:46 PM
True, it is simple. I sure don't want to make it complicated. If you were to see the Access 2002 database for yourself, you'd see how simple it really is. Then you could formulate your own ideal solution instead of contending with my hack explanations.

As requested, here is a simplified description of what I need to pay someone to do for me. Before I get into it, I have to say that I have done this very thing, described my database, that is, on other discussion forums earlier in the development process. I found that doing so makes this simple database seem complicated. Seeing the database for yourself is much simpler, but I NEED THIS DONE! So, here I comply with your request...

Purpose:
Reference and data entry of the verbs and vocabulary of four languages (English, Spanish, Portuguese, and Kreyol).

Functionality:
Viewing or entering data with the use of one of two main forms at a time. Navigate each form with multiple pages (tabs). (1) Read the values populating the text boxes or (2) enter values into the textboxes.

Table Structure:
14 tables. 4 tables contain verbs data. The 4 verbs tables are related and fully normalized. The remaining 10 tables (fully normalized) contain vocabulary data and are not related.

Controls:
2 Forms, each with multiple pages (tabs). 14 text boxes. 2 combo boxes. Labels. A button on each form for toggling between each. A help button on each form to launch HTML help.

-----------------------

Please, please, please don't abandon this! Bear with me! I need this done! Propose away! Tell me something! Make me an offer! PLEASE!

-Dave

Vladdy
04-30-2004, 07:56 PM
What I do not understand is:
- Why do you need javascript and why do you care what the client is, when you can keep all the processing on the server and serve simple HTML forms (something IE3.0 can understand) to do the user interaction.

etalent
04-30-2004, 08:00 PM
Thanks for the response as always...

The database is to reside on a handheld computer, so it won't have any connectivity to a server or anything else. If you're thinking of making the handheld itself the server, great!

Forgive me if this does not clarify

Vladdy
04-30-2004, 08:17 PM
So you want it all to be a stand alone app on a hand-held... then why base it web technology in the first place??? Use VB, C++ or whatever to make an execuatable that runs in the target environment and works with your DB. You mentioned there is a limit to Access DB version - maybe the handheld can not handle your volume of data at all???

etalent
04-30-2004, 08:29 PM
Yes, I want the database to be a stand along app on my handheld.

Based on my understanding of Pocket Internet Explorer, which is the equivalent of IE 3.2, and Javascript is that they (IE and Javascript) could serve as the development environment to which my original Access 2002 database could be migrated to.

By ALL MEANS, please propose your solution IN Embedded VB, C++, or, as you put it "whatever to make an executable that runs in the target environment and works" with my DB. I realize that I may have to accept the 76,000 record limitation.

If you can code in Javascript/IE 3.2, Embedded VB, C++, your mamas' army boots, whatever, please propose a solution to me! (weak attempt at humor there. I hope you don't mind.)

I'm not a programmer, so I defer to your recommendations! -Thanks!

Vladdy
04-30-2004, 08:57 PM
I'm not the best person to do the handheld DB programming - just was trying to make sense of your requirements....
Good Luck in getting it done.

Just curious, is it something that you are developing for sale, or just a hobby project. In latter case, instead of paying someone to do the custom programming for you - use this money to buy yourself a new notebook (the latest Sony VAIOs are pretty light and compact) and use what you have now on it, without thinking about restrictions imposed by the handheld. :thumbsup:

sad69
04-30-2004, 09:42 PM
Looks like you gotta bite:
http://www.projectspool.com/item.php?id=42693

Sounds pricey, but hopefully that one works out for you!

PS. I spoke with etalent in the PHP forums earlier, and I recommended that he post in this forum as he would get a better response (at least I hoped he would!).

I've been doing some reading and PocketIE doesn't support VBScript, ActiveX, or Java Applets. I'm not even sure that you can include .js files!

If you can include .js files, then that's where you would store you static 'database' in the form of arrays. However, Javascript cannot write to a file without ActiveX. So if you're planning on being able to input more data in the database, you'd have to go into the .js file and update that manually (not sure how hard that would be to do..).

Until we find out whether or not PocketIE allows for inclusion of .js files (unless of course your database is static and will not grow), I would think that this solution is not going to work. I don't know if there's a PocketVB that you might be able to work with, but that would be a suitable alternative.

I did find this:
http://www.javascriptdatabase.com

But it requires ASP, and I'm thinking that's to connect to read/write to a file(s).

I've also read that you can read/write to a file/database using Javascript by calling an Applet. But PocketIE doesn't support Applets!

So it looks like you may be out of luck here etalent. I'm sure if you had all the money in the world, you might be able to find some Pocket hackers that would be able to write something up for you. For a hacker that's interested in the project and interested in learning how to build a program for Windows CE, check out this site:
http://www.cegadgets.com/cedevtools.htm

It may open up some new opportunities (there are some freebies on there..).

Good luck!
Sadiq.

etalent
04-30-2004, 09:59 PM
I mentioned that Pocket Explorer does not support VBScript. It does not support Active X either, so that means that Pocket IE is out.

Maybe Embedded VB is the best way to go. That is the "default" environment after all. My hope was that Pocket IE could've worked. I really like Javascript and IE. I had hoped...

Thanks for the link. I'm exploring there now...

Alex Vincent
04-30-2004, 10:42 PM
Offtopic: :( I feel very bad for causing such a big ruckus by asking if it was possible or not. etalent, I want to apologize for that. This is a forum where we members are supposed to talk about job offers, not technical details.

Then again, if it's impossible, someone would've raised the point anyway :D

I still don't know how to do this for you, etalent. The big catch I see is that there's no way to modify the database's contents and save the modifications.

A 2-dimensional JS array (an array of arrays) could be a starting point for simulating a table, though...

sad69
04-30-2004, 10:54 PM
Then again, if it's impossible, someone would've raised the point anyway


Nothing's impossible! Remember guys, you're not limited PocketIE and Javascript, you're merely limited to NEC Mobilepro 780 HPC running Win Ce 2.11. And If they could write an OS for that thing, the sky (and the memory resources and the screen size..) are the limit!

Take a look at that last link I provided. I'm sure someone can craft a program out of those tools (Python? Java? I remember seeing some Python and Java wizzes on this board somewhere..)

Think about the experience you'd get from this.. your resume.. if you're religious, etalent is actually doing this for the church (or something like that..).

etalent, why don't you post you upper limit on what you'd be willing to spend on this project. Maybe you'd get more (or less..) of a response that way.

Sadiq.

raf
05-01-2004, 08:47 AM
Offtopic: :( I feel very bad for causing such a big ruckus by asking if it was possible or not. etalent, I want to apologize for that. This is a forum where we members are supposed to talk about job offers, not technical details.

Then again, if it's impossible, someone would've raised the point anyway :D

I still don't know how to do this for you, etalent. The big catch I see is that there's no way to modify the database's contents and save the modifications.

A 2-dimensional JS array (an array of arrays) could be a starting point for simulating a table, though...
This is not a real joboffer, it's more asking for a favor in my opinion.

And he's asking propositions anyway.

It's an unrealistic idea to do this with javascript. Just create a page containing a 2D array of 80.000 elements, each containing an array of 70 elements (14 table *5 fields each) and then take a look at the filesize or try to load that page. My gues is that it will be about 8 - 9 MB
You could set up something realtional-like by making it a hierarchical datastructure and then assign groupID's to each element, buth this will even increase the filesize.

The only non-db sollution is see is using an external XML file but i don't know i that Pocket IE allows using XML dataislands.

But i think were on the tech-trip here for way to long. Apparently you want to create a dictionairy. Did you concider using some ready made dictionairy software. Like
http://www.pocketgear.com/software_detail.asp?id=5346

You'd need to do without the kreyol but you can add new entrys and will have more features and possebilitys than in any custom build tool you would be willing to pay for or would be able to write yourself.


I think you should give/have given more info about your functional requiremets and the overall aim of your project, instead of only giving technical specs.

Just my opinion...



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