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View Full Version : Age of you programmers



uniquity
01-04-2004, 07:11 AM
i was just wonderin how old everybody was so i could get an idea of if i'm startin to late or to early or whatever.

Spookster
01-04-2004, 06:25 PM
I do not think age really matters as long as you are willing to learn. In college my fellow students that were also pursuing degrees in computer science were as young as 18 to as old as in their 60's.

Mhtml
01-05-2004, 03:50 AM
So which were you spooks, 18 or 60? :P

He's right of course, as long as you are willing and have the time to practice you will pick it up easy enough...

Myself I'm 17 (in 9 days) and I learnt BASIC, ASP and Python 2 years ago and then in 2003 I learnt c/c++ and PHP ...

Celtboy
01-05-2004, 05:38 AM
I'm 22, 23 in a few weeks.

Spook is several years older than me.

jkd started early. I know @ least 14, but possibly sooner. I started when I was 4, with BASIC.

Mhtml
01-05-2004, 06:36 AM
Well I did actually learn BASIC in 1993 (I would have been 6) but I had pretty much forgotten it all after a few years because I got bored with it ...

uniquity
01-05-2004, 06:55 AM
thanks for the input guys

DsgnrsTLZAdmin
01-13-2004, 10:51 PM
any age is fine to learn. but first you need to fully understand the operating system (OS) you will be using. Myself i started at 12 years old. i am 15 now and i have learn php, javascript, css, xhtml/html and visual basic

liorean
01-13-2004, 11:02 PM
I'm 21, started when I was 11... Of course, I've long since forgot the languages I started on back then, like Pascal, simple Machine Code, and QBASIC (I tried BASIC, but for some reason it always crashed my AMD 80286 Clone)

narf
01-14-2004, 10:55 PM
im 12 now 13 in april and i can programm fluently (without using a book) javascript, c++ and HTML.
i done my school project in html.

p.s. if youve seen my posts then you have seen how baad my spellin is this is an indacation to my age and of course how dum i am.

agent narf signing out.

shmoove
01-14-2004, 11:56 PM
Sheeesh. I'm not even 30, but I'm feeling kinda old right now.

mpicklesimer
01-15-2004, 12:53 AM
23. I used to do Visual C++ way back in '96/97 but I left it. The only reason I'm doing Visual Basic now is it's a course requirement for an Associate's in Networking for some Godforsaken reason.

MPCODER
01-18-2004, 03:18 PM
13..... :EMBARREST: i can do C++, JavaScript and a little PHP.

Nightfire
01-18-2004, 03:36 PM
I started back in the 80's when I was around 6 or 7 on the commodore 64 :D I'm now 22, hardly know any languages as what I know now can do everything I need :)

dragon
01-25-2004, 10:34 AM
Are you serious??? 6 or 7? I can't imagine being motivated enough at that age to learn any computer language. Your parents must be programmers.

Nightfire
01-25-2004, 02:08 PM
Nah, all they know is how to get to pogo.com lol

uniquity
01-25-2004, 04:43 PM
lol

Mhtml
01-26-2004, 02:36 AM
lol, well actually my Dad programmed a menu system on our 286 which you could just insert a number and the item which corresponded to that number on the list displayed above was executed. I watched him play with adding animations and colors to it for ages and that got me interested.

Besides back then if you had already beaten commander keen 1-6 including keen dreams, captain comic, aldo's adventures and got bored with test drive III there wasn't much else to do but make your own game :) ..

Oh and railroad tycoon, King's Quest III and prince of persia!! Can you believe how such old games have been kept alive and even brought back to life in cutting edge 3d technology!!

So many memories... making me feel old ;) ..

velious
01-29-2004, 09:58 PM
this does not have to do with age..but I was thinking that it'd be nice to know some of you who have yahoo or some messenger so members of this forum can actually chat or speak with each other :). Just an idea.

velious
01-29-2004, 10:01 PM
lol...nvm mind that message...just click on profiles

Roy Sinclair
01-29-2004, 10:56 PM
The original Railroad Tycoon is still better in a great many ways than any of it's "upgraded" versions.

soccerdvy
01-29-2004, 11:45 PM
Ya, I don't really think it matters what your AGE is when you start programming, I started with HTML when I was 10, and now that I'm 14, I can script in PHP and JSP, and program in C/C++, VB, and I'm workin on command-line and applett Java :). A lot of people give me funny looks, or think I'm some kinda genius, but I don't think that it matters what age you are.

raf
01-30-2004, 10:51 AM
Seems i'm the oldest that dares to tell his age : i'm 29.
I realy started coding about 2 years ago. Strictly databasedrive webapplication-stuff --> ASP, PHP, bit of Java, db's (MsAccess, mySQL, PostGreSQL, bit of DB2, bit of Oracle, bit of scripting for SAS-mainframe), XML. (and of course XHTML, CSS, bit of javascript)
My earliest coding-experiments were at 12 (mind you, that was back in '85) with a commodore64 (i don't even remember in what language that was),later on someTurbo Pascal and Basic at school but then i left the coding scene.
I picked it up again because (as a business-side project manger) i got tiered on analysts telling me that this and that couldn't be done, or that is was to complexe to make it performant etc. So i started writing demo-tools to illustrate concepts and to show it could be done (which usually doesn't change a thing). Soon these became real applications and then i decided it as a time to switch carier because i was evoling into an IT-job which was not realy what i wanted to do for the rest of my life (there are a lott of dead-end jobs in IT so make sure you don't become a super-specialist in something, unless you want to do more a less the same for the rest of your life) .
So (like all older people) i don't think that age realy matters. I think it's even easier to be a bit older and have some IT-related work-experience so that you don't only know the tools, but also know what can be accomplished by them and how each tool can be used efficiently. And then just pick the tools that will enable you to reach your goals or that are the most appealing to you. Learning a new language is easy and doesn't take up much time if you know some general coding-concepts and conventions.

Also, don't think in terms as 'startin to late or to early' because all coding-areas are continuesly evolving and if you want to get seriously into IT, you will always need to start learning new technologies. I couldn't have started learning db-driven webapps when i was 20 because there was hardly any available technology for it (maybe at some businesses but not for the mainstream public). And it will be the same for you: by the time you reach 30, new technologies will be available and it's not necessarely because you have 20 years of coding-experience by then, that you will learns these new technologies that much quicker. New technologies frequently use new concepts and often require mindshift and sadly; most people with years of experience, don't have a learning attitude.
When you think you don't need to learn anymore, that is when you have become to old to learn (or that you are still to young or stupid to learn)...

sitami
01-30-2004, 12:29 PM
Originally posted by Nightfire
I started back in the 80's when I was around 6 or 7 on the commodore 64 :D I'm now 22, hardly know any languages as what I know now can do everything I need :)


ahh the good old commodore 64 :) i wrote my 1st program on that when i was 6 :)

used to write dungeouns and dragons ( turn based ) games .


i think i'll get it out of teh attic later and have a play with it again for old times sake :)

Roelf
01-30-2004, 03:28 PM
Originally posted by raf
Seems i'm the oldest that dares to tell his age : i'm 29.

i am 35, first contact with a computer was a commodore 64 (around '82) started programming in basic then fiddled around with the sinclair zx spectrum, (soft keys, a bit like winegums) atari 600/800 XL, philips p2000T (with the little cassettes) then amiga 500 and first time on a pc in '87.

programmed in basic, comal 80, apl, pascal, VB, javascript (client and serverside) VB.NET
first program of the shelf i learned to use was Wordstar
first harddisk 40 mb (and i was actually thinkin of partitioning it into c and d, each 20 mb)
first display type i used: cga
first box of floppies i bougt (3,5"double density - 720 kb, 10 pcs) was about $25

makes me feel old

mindlessLemming
01-31-2004, 01:39 PM
Did BASIC and VB when I was 10-12. Got bored, dicovered girls, guitar and graphics apps.
Now at 22, I'm learning all the stables of modern web-dev.
First Computer (all of my own) Commodore 64 SX. Possibly the worlds first laptop. (Although at 7 years old, I couldn't move it on my own!) Spent all day drawing ASCII art on it.... Oh the special characters that keyboard had...
First HDD - Dad bought a 5mb drive for $5000 in 1984. I don't even remember what system it was in.

Mhtml
01-31-2004, 04:07 PM
Heh, I remember (well of course I do, I'm only 17) my first computer.
It was a commodore 286. 75Hz I think it was, and a 30mb hdd and super vga monitor ... I still have it! Minus a monitor but I can rig a few cables to get newer ones to work with it.

I think it has dos 6.1 on it, can't remember .. I think when I wanted to run win 3.1 which took up most of the drive I needed to upgrade it to 6.1 ... I used to call it the 'Keen Machine' because all I used to play was commaner keen, and eventually wolfenstein and duke nukem.

I think I'll boot it up again this year, it'll probably take about a year to start ;)..

malform
02-02-2004, 11:07 PM
I am 43.I've been more of a starving artist than a programmer,playing serious guitar and drums.
I did get a commodore 64,then a plus-4 in the early 80's.First I learned basic including dimensioning arrays.I began to make a pinball machine but basic was too slow.For speed,I learned 6502 assembly,having to make my own assembler first with basic....
I made an interpretor,kind of like windows.I could plug in paramaters and use common subroutines,to build an application quickly.There were many gaps in code due to changes,so I started recompiling.I created errors that I never finished debugging and in the closet it went.
I learned HTML and enjoyed making bogus web pages for myself.That carried me into desktop themes,including photoshop,wave editing,icons and animated cursors,and animated startup LOGOs which I explained on this site last year..
I now want to get into x86 assembly,and posted questions that have gone unanswered so far.

whackaxe
02-03-2004, 09:23 AM
i'm 17 i learnt
-HTML at 13
-Javascript at 14
-CSS at 14
-PHP at 15
-C++ at 17 (now that is, trying desperatly to MOD half life :P)

Mhtml
02-03-2004, 03:11 PM
17?!! I always thought you were much older than me whackaxe! You're French right? What's it like over there, I think I will probably move to that part of the world next year!

plutoniumman
02-09-2004, 04:29 PM
I'm 14.
I learnd HTML at 13 (not to good at it).
and Java script at 13 or 14.
and I'm trying to learn C.

Roy Sinclair
02-09-2004, 05:13 PM
I guess I'll admit to being 45, I started programming at 14 with HP 1000 Time Shared Basic. I've probably coded in more languages for more types of computers now than many of you even know exist but I'd guess I coded the most in COBOL back in my dinosaur tending days.

The important thing to understand is that you can get left behind doing only legacy work and eventually finding that you have no career opotunities left if you don't work at keeping current and learning new things.

super kobs
02-09-2004, 05:29 PM
16 - Fluent in PHP/MySQL

Learing Perl and C++

warhammerdude20
02-09-2004, 07:49 PM
14,

i know javascript and java. starting on c++. started when i was 13

gsnedders
02-10-2004, 12:14 AM
Originally posted by narf
im 12 now 13 in april and i can programm fluently (without using a book) javascript, c++ and HTML.
i done my school project in html.

p.s. if youve seen my posts then you have seen how baad my spellin is this is an indacation to my age and of course how dum i am.

agent narf signing out.


I just want to know how you learnt javascript and c++ (both languages I want to learn and your about the same age as me).

Mhtml
02-10-2004, 01:42 PM
However I do get bullyed at school for knowing so much about computer but normally just something like being called "G5 Processor", even know they do not know what it is (IBM PowerPC 970). .. Weird, you mean to say that intelligent people aren't respected over there?


I just want to know how you learnt javascript and c++ (both languages I want to learn and your about the same age as me).

We just finished saying a while ago how age doesn't matter! Most people learn the same way, depending on the language of course.. But most people learn by doing a few tutorials or reading a chapter in a book and then experimenting.

Javascript is really simple, I only know as much as I need to know, which is suffice to make anything I want/need.

C++ is just as simple, I was pretty good at it after a month just by fiddling around.. I mean after all programming, no matter what the language is fundamentally the same (at least the high level languages) ..

I think first, take a look at some of the articles on www.gamedev.net I recall there were a few newbie articles about programming and how you should attack it! :)

hkucsis
02-10-2004, 03:23 PM
23 - ASP/PHP/C#

Garadon
02-10-2004, 04:09 PM
21 or 22 can't remember really :).

I learnt.
ASP.NET
PHP
HTML
DELPHI
DirectX
Javascript
Java

Never learned C though mostly cause I ain't got a program to it like C Builder or Visual C, but I can read c/c++ code and convert it to delphi.

Never read a programming book in my life(don't like reading fall asleep), I leaned by doing, forums and listening to my different teachers constant blabber.

Mostly I program never finished games(some sort of desire for self punishment I guess)
-Utopia lind of games.
-Tetris,snakes,etc....
-Bomberman.

bcarl314
02-11-2004, 02:12 PM
Well, I too will admit to being 29. Pretty much started getting into computers at about 25. Dabbled in alot of web app dev stuff and mostly concentrate on PHP / mySQL now. Although I'm trying to learn Linux, bash scripting and the like now.

Although my primary job is web programming, I find more and more that I hate technology. Don't get me wrong, I love sitting down and coding web pages and putzing around with Linux, but all these Palm Pilots, Cell Phones, digital this and digital that really don't interest me. I'm of the opinion that when I'm away from the computer, I want to be away from technology. It kinda lets me "unplug" and seems to help me keep what sanity I have left.

May sound weird, but hey, so am I.

Anyone else like that???

RadarBob
02-23-2004, 09:10 PM
47 here:thumbsup:

Programming is my second career. After getting a BS in CS i did not write programs for a living for the next 15 years.

Age does matter....

IMHO... there is a general age bias in the computer field. Age, expecially in the 50+ group is a negative IMHO. Oh, many are beginning to "get it." that one competent, experienced coder can easily be worth a half dozen young whipper-snappers. But given the rapid advancement in technology I wonder if it's simply assumed that an older programmer is not up to speed skill-wise, physical-wise or mental-wise. Especially as those doing the hiring "get younger" (from my perspective).

Also, employers want cheap labor. Older programmers are generally equated with more expensive labor.

Older workers can be associated with the "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" stereotype. Unfortunately this can be true. Once I worked in a COBOL shop w/ quite a few experienced, older coders. There was no question about their compenence in COBOL, but.. I was *very suprised* that these folks knew nothing else. We took a 9 day intro course on Ada. I was stunnded than many in the room just didn't understand data typing, parameter passing, scope issues, etc. because these simply didn't exist in COBOL.

Can you imagine these folks looking for a new job? Experience out the wazzu, but no broader skills.

On the other end of the spectrum is the stereotypical kid who knows all the Java syntax for example but codes with nested FOR statements instead of WHILE loops - and I've seen that too. He was getting paid for this! I pity the poor SOB who had to maintain that code!

So maybe the bottom line is a healthy mix of knowledge & experience. Most job openings ask for specific skills; but at some level, experience - and by implication, age - must count for something.

whackaxe
02-23-2004, 09:53 PM
reminds me of a friends grandad, hes retired, and writes programs in his spare time. some of the concepts/programs are so good he sells them as beta products :p

trib4lmaniac
02-23-2004, 11:27 PM
And I thought everyone here would be loads older than me! Glad that some of you are my age, gives me hope. I am 15 and only started learning HTML about 6 months ago! Since then Ive learnt to write the 3 basic client-side languages (HTML, CSS and JavaScript) fluently aswell as PHP/SQL. Deceided to take a look a C++ just 2 days ago and all is going well so far :thumbsup:

Mitch
02-24-2004, 12:23 AM
13 i am..i only know vb6...:rolleyes:

whackaxe
02-24-2004, 09:55 AM
you need to feel the powa of C++ mitch! reminds me of that list of programming languages:

C: shooting yourself in the foot
C++: shooting yourself in the fot with objecyts (i think)
VB: shooting yourself in the foot, but having fun doing so

anyone got a URL for that list?

Mitch
02-24-2004, 11:12 PM
Well, you see...i have a really bad memory...and well...i was like 8 or so i think...and i wanted to make a game.....way back when i didnt even know there were programming languages...neways...i remember it said it was c++...but i just threw the cd somewhere bc i didnt get it...neways...when i find it ill feel the powa...

+...i just started a couple months ago with vb

Mhtml
02-25-2004, 01:31 AM
Originally posted by whackaxe
you need to feel the powa of C++ mitch! reminds me of that list of programming languages:

C: shooting yourself in the foot
C++: shooting yourself in the fot with objecyts (i think)
VB: shooting yourself in the foot, but having fun doing so

anyone got a URL for that list? I thought it was like, --

c: shooting yourself in the foot
c++: shooting yourself in the foot and reusing the bullet

No idea about the vb though, I keep my distance from anything VB related just in case I start to like it ;).

Terence
02-29-2004, 06:34 AM
i 'm 22 now. i think i should be the oldest one to learn programmming here. actually, i don't have any chance to learnt it at my school age. Also, i have a computer at 20.

i learnt ....

html at 20
vb at 20
javascript at 20
Java at 20
asp at 20
php at 21
asp.net at 22 (not pro)

learning jsp/servlet now...

Seawalker0903
02-29-2004, 07:38 PM
ok so I'm 23 and female...neither have stopped me.
I grew up with an Apple IIE and wrote my own games in BASIC at age 6. I've been working with C++ and assembly since 16. Now I've been learning Java, XHTML, CSS, and Perl. Each new language has built off the previous ones and have helped me learn the next...and I look forward to learning others too.

whackaxe
02-29-2004, 10:34 PM
got it :D

http://www.m5p.com/~pravn/foot.html

comprehensiv guide to programming :)

Megagix
02-29-2004, 11:13 PM
Woa, I thought I had a head-start on people when I started programming in HTML, PHP, and VB when I was in 6th grade (11, 12, or maybe 13 years old.. dont remember)... but programming at 6 & 7? Talk about super nerds! lol, j/k. What aspect of programming could possibly hold a person's attention at that age? There arn't many pretty colors to stare at or anything.

Does opening wordpad and typing a bunch of random characters count? Because then my little sister may be the youngest of them all:D

-Jason

Mhtml
03-03-2004, 03:51 AM
Well when most of us were kids ( well I'm still a kid I guess.. only 1 more year till I'm legally an adult ;) ) computers weren't quite what they are now. The next best thing to moving a red sqaure around the screen chasing yellow dots was making a blue square that spun around randomly ;) .. Although I built little RPG's mainly.

Wordpad didn't even exist when I was programming ;) ... It was called write :P..

Whackaxe -- That one is a little different ( and over the top ) in comparison to the one I've read before ... I'll go hunting for it later :).. Some of those were a laugh though!

[edit:] Should call you the Gimp Pimp! lol. :p

mindlessLemming
03-03-2004, 04:42 AM
Originally posted by whackaxe

http://www.m5p.com/~pravn/foot.html
comprehensiv guide to programming :)

LOL!
These 3 are my fav's

- Microsoft
Object "Foot" will be included in the next release. You can upgrade for $500.

- Apple
We'll let you shoot yourself, but it'll cost you a bundle.

- Windows95

d:\setup

whackaxe
03-03-2004, 04:39 PM
yeh, some of those aren't right. C++ wasn't so long and VB wasn't exactly that. VB is pretty true though, i mean, 1 word: runtimes :p

jtk07
03-18-2004, 10:01 PM
Im 14 now.. started at 12. I know C++, Javascript, HTML, PHP, Visual Basic, some QuickBasic, and thats all :thumbsup:

gsnedders
03-19-2004, 08:39 PM
I'm 12, started when I was 8, I know HTML, XHTML, CSS, learning PHP and some types of BASIC.

I made my first application when I was 3 :cool: on what was an old QL so that was superBASIC, at the age of 8 I made my first website and , when I was 10 I started using REALbasic, an IDE which was only available for Mac then, but since then it has become available for Windows. I am now better a Computing than all the teachers at my school :D.

Kylena
04-26-2004, 10:44 AM
I made my first application when I was 3 :cool: on what was an old QL so that was superBASIC, at the age of 8 I made my first website and , when I was 10 I started using REALbasic, an IDE which was only available for Mac then, but since then it has become available for Windows. I am now better a Computing than all the teachers at my school :D.

:eek: At the tender young age of 3? :faint:

Unit
04-26-2004, 07:56 PM
I am 26 now and unlike most of you, I started programming when I was much older.. at 15 with dos batch files and dBase III plus forms. This was only for a month. Then I had a break of 2.5 years before I could get access to a computer again. And a year after, I was writing my own games in pascal/c/c++ with my own graphics library :D

During the break, I used to write programs in my diary and imagine them being compiled and run :thumbsup:

I came to know about the web at the age of 21 :rolleyes:

Mhtml
04-27-2004, 12:19 AM
Wow, we have quite a diverse range of ages here ... I think between us all that have posted the average age for starting is about 10 years old. Just imagine what it'll be like in another 10 years or so.

black3842
04-27-2004, 06:33 AM
All I can say is wow...I never touched most of this stuff at the young ages mentioned in this thread. You guys are gonna rock when you finally do start your career in this. I'm 27, a jack of all trades, master of none. I started with Logo back in the 6th grade I think...but nothing complex like C++. I then learned basic. Wrote some batch files etc... in high school. Did some pascal and C and Java in college, dropped out due to being broke, worked technical support for 3 years, did NT Consulting, then software engineer at IBM for a few years, but never wrote code....just solved problems. I said F it...quit IBM and moved to the country. Now I do AS/400 operations for work and code PHP/C++ in my spare time as a hobby......I enjoy it more as a hobby than I ever could as a job. I must say.....some of you moderators rock for your age...or for any age....

gsnedders
04-29-2004, 08:45 PM
Wow, we have quite a diverse range of ages here ... I think between us all that have posted the average age for starting is about 10 years old. Just imagine what it'll be like in another 10 years or so.

Maybe we will all be starting at 3 ;)

Mhtml
04-29-2004, 09:56 PM
Well some of us already are ;) ... maybe they'll be onto assembly at 4 lol, the world would be run by lil' hackers.

gsnedders
04-29-2004, 10:10 PM
Well some of us already are ;) ... maybe they'll be onto assembly at 4 lol, the world would be run by lil' hackers.

They'll program alarm clocks to tell them when it's there birthday, I just made one (http://apps.geoffers.uni.cc/alarm/).

Now, I've got to do something about my milk tooth which is falling out...

Mhtml
04-29-2004, 11:44 PM
lol :)

Pikeus
04-30-2004, 05:05 PM
I started programming in BASIC at 10 years old. It took a good while for me to understand it well, I spent more time kludging code together than trying to understand exactly what I was doing. I didn't have any books to show me programming concepts, and the Internet wasn't available back then.

Throwing code together just isn't enough, I soon realized that you can limit yourself by not fully learning about 'how to' program.

I find that many people who started to code at a young age still don't progress much beyond 'novice', many kids start out by kludging and form a bad habit that they just can't break. It depends on whether you're lazy and do a lot of copy-and-paste coding, whether you just blindly try doing things until they work (even though you don't fully understand how), or whether you actually take time out to learn the ins and outs of programming.

It doesn't matter how much time you spend on it, it's what you do with that time that counts. It's more boring to learn the theory behind programming, but if you want to be good then it's a must.

Do the boring stuff dude, it's necessary.

bradyj
05-02-2004, 05:36 AM
Yeah, but it doesn't create the friendliest atmosphere to learn in here -- excessive sarcasm, however, is more than welcome.:)

I don't know what to say about three year olds, never seen that - I'll say my four year old cousin knows way too much about computers and knows his way around the net very well. But ten and up, I've learned quite a bit from kids that age -- some people have it, and some don't.

I was a natural speed reader when I was a kid, still at about 1600+ words a minute (advanced it by taking a speed reading course) -- that didn't hit more until about twelve. But at 16 I was a prepress artist for a screen printing company in a little town named Waukegan, in Illinois (http://www.americanoutfitters.com), which by then I had illustrator, freehand, corel, photoshop and some print applications down (as well as pdf print and postscript level knowledge, including some coding for those so I can fix the prints before they crap out). I think it was a hobby at first, and that made it take off, same for a lot of people here -- a hobby while your young.

It seems excessive, but it's common for young people to grasp advanced intellectual knowledge -- this can be different from emotional development and wisdom, but is still not limited. I think I've met so many people in this industry that I can no longer say that it's an age thing.

I was on the bus yesterday when a 13yr old guy asked for my newspaper and we talked excessively about Google. He was going to school, I was going to work.

That being said, I didn't learn my Web code until really 18 -- didn't try to actually code until 21 (I blame my print design background and the desire to do everything in programs without programming), didn't really get the XHTML/HTML, CSS down till 22 and I'm off to PHP, Javascript/Actionscript.

Some of these 'kids', however, could rip me a new one in all these areas.

Remember, it's probably code to me (maybe you) and others -- but a lot of people look at it like a real verbal language. How many bi-lingual kids do you know at ten? It is a language, it's just one that's based on a universal architecture of math. Learn the rules, build the slang, break the rules, build your own language... seems the right path for some.

Jojosh
05-02-2004, 05:57 PM
Yes,I agree that kids learn faster these days and they look kind of smarter.It seems they are interested more in sience and computers then in childs play and games.It all ok and fine...but the reason I reacted is when I seen all that previous posts it just seems fantastic.It looks that these forums are visited mainly by wunderkids and little genius.All I want to say is this.Everything in in life and especialy sience and especialy programming require TIME..time for trial and error,time to acquire skills trought mistakes and learning from them.To say it is possiblle to learn several languages(programming) in one year and to claim you KNOW them is unreal.I dont say that everybody has same IQ or learning time,or that everebody must spend same amount of time as I to learn something..no..but majority of people do need time.Some of them dont.But that "some of them" kind of people are rare.As I mentioned above...it needs time,practice makes a master,and practice requires TIME.One can think that he mastered C++,JS,VB or anything else in an year but...I can swear that when you would test that knowlege for practical purpose result would be.."I need some time";)If im wrong in all this then we are looking in future where all earth is populated by Uberhumans or Supermens(judging by quantity of little genius on this forum).Get real.I appologize for bad English-but Im only a average human being and I dont have capacity to learn English in 6 months(as some of you have).

Pikeus
05-02-2004, 06:01 PM
Concerning learning multiple languages, it's not always as complex as it appears. If you know C++ and you want to learn Java, it's not going to take much to learn it - considering the syntax is very similar. If you grasp one language, learning other languages is made far easier. Having said that, you need to have spent a considerable amount of time actually programming with a language, and programming in various different areas, to be able to say that you are proficient.

I started with TI BASIC at 10 years old. I understood FOR loops, IF THEN ELSE, subroutines, etc. I couldn't really make anything much with what I knew, but I could still 'program', and I progressed with time. It's not C++, but the fundamental logic base is there. The Beginners Basic guide with the TI-99/4a was very good, it appears to have been aimed at kids, so that made it easier for me to learn.

I was interested in computers and programming at 7 years old, but I didn't have a computer so I couldn't do anything like that. If I had started programming at that age I doubt that I'd have done very well, I don't think I'd have progressed very far beyond simple 'hello world' stuff. It depends on what material you have to learn programming with, and whether you actually learn what you're doing (instead of thinking, "Hey, that worked, I wonder how?")

From what I've seen (or not seen), most of the people that 'brag' about their coding skills are not quite so hot as what they'd like to be. To say that you could program at 6 years old is fine (hey, 'hello world' is still a program), but to give the impression that you were a 'good' programmer at 6 years old is highly unbelievable. If at 6 you were copying code from a book and changing some bits, or writing a 'hello world' program, there is a significant difference between that and writing a game from scratch.

I certainly agree that people saying that they are very good programmers in a particular language at a pre-teen level are more than likely not. You do get kids with high IQs that certainly could attain such a level at this age, but you don't find many like that. If they're that smart at that age, they should be mega-smart when they're older!

If you state that you are 'good' or 'very good' at programming in a language, I think it's only fair to provide an example (or examples) of your work. If anybody can't back up a claim then just ignore them. Most people go through a stage where they want everybody to think they're a genius, it's nothing new and it's not going to go away!

Jojosh
05-02-2004, 06:10 PM
I agree with all my heart.

bradyj
05-02-2004, 07:54 PM
If they're that smart at that age, they should be mega-smart when they're older!

If you state that you are 'good' or 'very good' at programming in a language, I think it's only fair to provide an example (or examples) of your work. If anybody can't back up a claim then just ignore them. Most people go through a stage where they want everybody to think they're a genius, it's nothing new and it's not going to go away!

Not true -- often times it's found that IQ's stay at an average around 15 (if IQ is believed to be the standard, their are different levels of grading intelligience I believe) and don't jump. IQ's are meant to test a level of intelligience, not how good of a parrot you are with answering basic questions. Problem solving, emotional/psych intelligience -- the 7 levels of intellect, not your text book knowledge. Read these forums, I think many of them have proved it.

But the question stands, who has the capacity to judge their comprehension? You? If you're not up to their level, how would you know?

The public is tolerant of everything except genius -- Oscar Wilde

Pikeus
05-02-2004, 09:21 PM
Not true -- often times it's found that IQ's stay at an average around 15 (if IQ is believed to be the standard, their are different levels of grading intelligience I believe) and don't jump.

You seem to be of the opinion that I believe IQs increase with age. That's not what I meant.

If your intelligence is so high that you can learn to program very well at an early age, your learning abilities should be fantastic, and your skills should have developed to a very high extent.



IQ's are meant to test a level of intelligience, not how good of a parrot you are with answering basic questions. Problem solving, emotional/psych intelligience -- the 7 levels of intellect, not your text book knowledge.

I agree.



But the question stands, who has the capacity to judge their comprehension? You? If you're not up to their level, how would you know?

We're all at a public forum. If somebody provides examples of their work, claiming to be proficient in the language used to create it, if there is something lacking in it then somebody is sure to point it out.

It should then be obvious, with the conversation that ensues, whether or not somebody knows what they're talking about.

If there are so many people here that are good coders, they should collectively be able to judge whether somebody's programming abilities are good.

bnuts40
05-03-2004, 01:32 AM
I'm 45 and I can turn the computer on without hurting myself.


Actually I'm a writer and use SGML, XML, HTML extensively for work.
Also use & maintain a number of technical databases.
I learned Basic way back - about 10 years ago - it's of little use now.

Unfortunately the programming aspect is something I've had little time to pursue professionally. So when I got a question concerning programming I gotta ask a "whiz kid" !

Jojosh
05-03-2004, 02:01 AM
"The public is tolerant of everything except genius -- Oscar Wilde"
Maybe,but this is so,because they are rare and not so oftenly finded on forums,surely not in so big numbers as seen on this;)
Dont believe that everybody who claim that he is genius ,really is.Lots of people just love to showoff.It is good for their ego.

gsnedders
05-03-2004, 02:15 AM
Everything in in life and especialy sience and especialy programming require TIME..time for trial and error,time to acquire skills trought mistakes and learning from them.

That is very, very true with me learning BASIC, only took me 9 years, whereas some languages take very little time, I only had very liitle knowledge of HTML (well, a lot more than my friends, they didn't know what it was) when I learnt XHTML & CSS, and I knew it very well within a week, however, it doesn't mean that I knew it all, I did know a lot of XHTML, and I have learnt very little in the 3 months since, however, I have almost doubled my knowledge of CSS and I'm still learning.

Mhtml
05-03-2004, 01:09 PM
Start leraning programming at 3!!!!!!!!C,mon.I mean,it is enough to hear that some of you claim that they know C++ programming at 10,but to say that you where 3 years old and programmed...hahaha...dont be a kid.These kind of lies and braging realy pises me off,it is tipical for boys in puberty.Grow up.
It is imposibble to learn four or five programming languages in one or two years,you may think that you know them but in reality.....and to claim above and to say you do all this at age of 6,8 or 15...cmon please.Stop with bull****ing.Im sorry for the language but to read all this fantasies....it is impossible to stay calm.
Well excuse me for having a much superior IQ than you. Not all of us started programming at that age. And how is that so hard to believe? Did you even begin to think about the rate at which we learn at that age? We take in absolutely everything, I didn't just read a book and learn... I learned from my dad, granted I didn't do much but print and get input for a year but once I was around 4 small rpg's where literally child's play.

And I don't think anyone here claimed to be writing C++ before 10. And well, writing C++ doesn't mean knowing C++. I hardly claim to be an expert in C++, sure I can code it, and if you ask me to make something there is a pretty big chance I can do it and it only took me 6 months to get to that stage. Right now I am doing advanced things people who have done it for years are only doing, it's not hard, some people just get it.

My father started teaching me from a very young age, he has degrees in mathematics, solid state physics and chemistry... as such I had a very educational upbringing, if I had a question there was a tiny chance my dad didn't have an answer for it...as is still the case.

Not only can I program but I also speak 3 languages, I hardly class myself as gifted though ... I don't even have a spectacular IQ, it's only 133 (so my first statement is probably incorrect but it was hard to resist an outburst at such an arrogant post).

Mhtml
05-03-2004, 01:46 PM
Just reading over the other posts which I skipped after reading the one I quoted above I've got some more commentary (as always ;)) --

I can provide examples (currently I have a 7500 line program I've been writing all year, pure Win32 API which at this time is sort of rare considering MFC in MSVC++ and other .NET framework related APIs) of my work, of course I am a bit older than some of the kids here, however 17 is still pretty young ...

Of course I do believe that some people on this forum say they 'know' or have 'mastered' some languages but I have seen them on other forums asking basic questions and of course they change their profiles hoping that nobody would remember..We had a member in here a few days ago asking for info on sites he could get virii from, for a friend of course ... yet examining his profile revieled he could code C++ and write virii.. Of course you use assembly for virii and worms because you need small file sizes and C++ is to bulky as it's a higher level language (of course not that I write virii, assembly is something I haven't really delved into yet and I'm sure it'll be the biggest challenge yet).

I do regard programming languages as a 'language' I guess.. I think a lot in programming logic, for mathematics I sort of switch between the two languages when solving problems in my head. When I am not doing something, generally I am programming.
Computers really are amongst the center of my reality, of course I do socialize (I'm a young adult after all and drinking won't be as much fun when you are legally allowed to do it) ...

I'm not sure if I ranted about newbs bloating their knowledge yet (I'm so tired) but that is completely old hat. I mean, they discover frontpage or dreamweaver, figure out basic html ... after that they find these forums and many others like it and find that there are in fact respected older people out there how know ASP, PHP, C++ and Java and in order to attempt to gain respect they will show off with copy/paste and visual basic programs. Like was said these people are everywhere, but if you look hard enough you can spot the adept few.

Most of what needs to be said has been said though, and I'm sorry for my arrogant and hypocritical remarks that are probably all through these messages ... But people like myself and of course those that are learning languages from 10 an up can really take offence to that, at least the legit ones who can understand what you said can ;):eek:..

I think I've ranted enough (probably said much of what has been said, sorry bout that ;))... :thumbsup: :cool:

Code Wizard
05-03-2004, 09:33 PM
Of course I do believe that some people on this forum say they 'know' or have 'mastered' some languages but I have seen them on other forums asking basic questions and of course they change their profiles hoping that nobody would remember..

Hahah,good one ;)

JavaScriptdude
05-05-2004, 01:23 AM
I am 12, and I know HTML, and a little JavaScript...(hence the name)

CrzySdrs
05-05-2004, 01:24 AM
18 - HTML, CSS, XML, bit o' PHP, SQL, Visual Basic, ASP classic

Jojosh
05-05-2004, 03:46 AM
Oh thank you for engliment..it so good to know that you are so smart and ingenious...im really ashamed to be so stupid and old and to dare to speak with you a wise one.HA.Cmon kid...stop with funny talk...Im not intersested how smat you are or how early you learned somthing..and your insulting other people innteligence shows that you ARE young and not acustomized to free exchange of oppinions.I wonder how you get to be moderator with such attitude.YOU maybe are so smart(I never claimed that you are not),but to have so many people on forum with that intelligence is unbelivable.An please dont brag about you abilities,its distatful at least.Sorry for bad English,but im not so smart and intelligent as you. :D

Jojosh
05-05-2004, 03:52 AM
Hey..I apollogize if Im insulting anybody with my opinnion,but you know im from Balkans and we tend to react somewhat violently..if you know what i mean :thumbsup:

whackaxe
05-05-2004, 11:00 AM
i'm getting the impression this thread is well past it's sell by date... does age really matter at all here anyway?

Mhtml
05-05-2004, 01:45 PM
Oh thank you for engliment..it so good to know that you are so smart and ingenious...im really ashamed to be so stupid and old and to dare to speak with you a wise one.HA.Cmon kid...stop with funny talk...Im not intersested how smat you are or how early you learned somthing..and your insulting other people innteligence shows that you ARE young and not acustomized to free exchange of oppinions.I wonder how you get to be moderator with such attitude.YOU maybe are so smart(I never claimed that you are not),but to have so many people on forum with that intelligence is unbelivable.An please dont brag about you abilities,its distatful at least.Sorry for bad English,but im not so smart and intelligent as you. :D
I think I sort of covered that in my last remarks about being sort of hypocritical, and well what I said about intelligence was really an oximoron I guess...those who are intelligent oft are the ones who don't brag, I was hardly bragging though ... I think I even whent to the extent of saying that I was most likely not more intelligent then you and did state that there are some very smart people on this forum .. perhaps you should read what is posted before hand. I am acustomed to the free exchange of ideas and oppinions, I got to be a moderator because I have been on these forums for a long time, because I have knowledge to share and well generally my attitude isn't as it was for most of my first post in respect to yours... The fact we have really not resorted to the lowest, most degrading (for both parties) language possible is a sign of how we all can readily exchange and debate oppinions here ... that is why most people are here, we keep these forums relatively clean so that we may do this (tis kind of fun this thread ;)). ..

I am hardly offended, obviously you are entitled to your own oppinion regardless of how it may be percieved by others... I have no problems with what you have said really, except the fact that you resorted to sarcasm after pretty much calling us all liars and insulted me directly, and well didn't really read my post and take note of some of the later comments and the context in which some of it was said...


I don't even have a spectacular IQ, it's only 133 (so my first statement is probably incorrect...



Hey..I apollogize if Im insulting anybody with my opinnion,but you know im from Balkans and we tend to react somewhat violently..if you know what i mean
Well I'm from Australia, we tend to react in the same manner generally ;) ..

drew.slifer
05-05-2004, 03:45 PM
I'm 18 now but started when I was 14! With Basic of course, which seems to be the beginning for quite a few here. I know Basic, HTML and very little bit of JScript and PHP. I'm going to get into VB and C++

gsnedders
05-05-2004, 08:21 PM
and your insulting other people innteligence shows that you ARE young and not acustomized to free exchange of oppinions.

That is not my attitude...

oracleguy
05-06-2004, 12:37 AM
I could probably buy into believing someone start learning some programming at 3. Think about it this way, for better or worse, everyone picked up their native language without anyone having to teach it to them, at least the basics. Why not the same for a programming language? It is just as valid as any spoken language; it has rules, syntax, and a vocabulary like spoken languages, so why not?

Some people just get it and some don't.

Jojosh
05-06-2004, 02:38 AM
:D As i mentioned before,the problem is not in age of some people when they start programming,but rather in this..those pople are RARE..and not so oftenly finded in such large numbers.I simply cant belive that every second person on this forum started programming so early,and learned it so fast.Maybe it is question of years because when you live some years you learn that not all people are sinsere and truthtelling as you belived as youngster.I belive that small kid as age of 3 have better things to do and other preocupations then to sit in front of monitor and think about loops,functions and variables.At least I and all other people I know haved.And I also think that its impossible to keep atention of such a little kid on such static thing such are programming languages and bites of code(Static at least for three year old kid).People at that age simply dont have such developed mind so called analitic-sintetical logical processing thinking,they are just kids who love bright,collorful fast moving,loud and funny things.Just think 99,9% pople dont even know to speak correctly let alone read and program code at that age.Genius kids do exist but not in such large numbers as presented at this forum.On the other hand I dont want to insult anybody by claiming that he or she is not smart as he or she says or claim.Everybody has his own projection of himself and I dont want to ruin that...people hate you if you do that.Yes we are all equal,but some of us are more equal than others ;) In conclusion I now find this discusion rather pointlles...as i say everybody has a right of his own opinoion...even if that opinion is that he is smarter than everybody else.But one must have in his mind that claiming that you learned something so fast and so early,may discourage other people or frustrate them.Imagine that someone who has 25 years and starts to learn JS or HTML sees all this posts about how early you started and how fast you learned something,and then tries to learn something fast as you claim you did.He might find this immposible to achive,and then think he is either stupid or old to begin with programming.And I know you dont want THAT.So i suggest that we all be honest and keep real,we will be better off.Thanks

oracleguy
05-06-2004, 04:24 AM
Genius kids do exist but not in such large numbers as presented at this forum.

Let's say there are 5,000 active members on here and 6 billion people in the world, that is like 8.3 x 10^-5 % of the world's population, which is REALLY small. So I fail to see why it couldn't be true.

Antoniohawk
05-06-2004, 04:32 AM
I'm closing this thread due to the great amount of controversy and flaming going on. In the future, let's attempt to keep discussions civilized and enjoyable for everyone.



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