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View Full Version : what the bloody hell is cms?



ConcreteWaves
03-28-2012, 10:46 PM
So I'm getting back into my web dev groove...but 7 yrs later, ouch **** has changed significantly. I'm learning css and I'm amazed at what sites r looking like now a days.

When I joined coding forums I still thought it was all about designing and slicing in photoshop. Now I realize you design a mock site, and just design it with css and html. It's definety cool, but an obstacle to tackle for sure.

My question is, I hear cms cms, words like drupal joomla wordpress, I know cms = content management system.....but.....in my head, the first thing I think of is....ftp. like slicing images in photoshop coding ur layout and then uploading everything to your ftp server through your hosting ie. Godaddy. And badabing badaboom. However, nowadays people hiring web devs require them to be drupal developers and knowledge with wordpress...I bash my face against the desk asking w.t.f. does cms do in english please, lol, the only answers I read are very tech-like and once again make me ask...w.t.f?

So I'm open to learning what cms is, I hear it's neccessary. Is it another language? Is it a program? Is it modern day like ftp server? Why does it benefit web devs? And, ontop of all that...what's the difference with hosting...I hear. Drupal and joomla have their own website hosting, idk, I do a lot of face smashing on the desk trying to sponge all these new modern day web dev ways, so any answers of enlightenment will be greatly appreciated ^.^

oracleguy
03-28-2012, 11:02 PM
Instead of me rehashing what has already been said, here are some links to read to start with:
http://www.codingforums.com/showthread.php?t=200572
http://www.codingforums.com/showthread.php?t=234755


(Search is your friend.)

ConcreteWaves
03-29-2012, 01:53 AM
Thanks mate. I understand what it is now 50% better. Still some unsolved questions but thre alway will be right!? Lol. Anywho, I read a lot of devs saying cms is boring...and repetitive...it makes sites look the same and takes away uniqueness. Its even a challange to learn. My next question is:

Can u be a web developer this day in age without learning cms. Simply. Having your clients files loaded ontheir ftp server badabing badaboom. None of this cms malarkey. Cuz it sounds to me, cms helps you cut corners in the long run...but that's all, nothin that can't be coded.:thumbsup: tell me if I got the wrong idea or not. Also what's this about collaborating...cms allows people to collab? Collab what? The development process? Or does cms help setup like.... user sign in and commenting and forums, ahhh lightbulb effect..

.so if I'm building a site for a client who needs NO community, just simple site for people to go to n see prices.....I DON'T need cms.

But if a client wants something where people register to buy crap like tshirts or w/e and comment reviews on the tshirts n stuff, go with a cms? Or can that be done in html,css,php,and javascript?

I'm learning here as I go so plz let me know if my thinking is completely off lol =P

Nile
03-29-2012, 02:06 AM
I think you're missing the point. A CMS is a content managing system. Something like wordpress, joomla and expressionengine are CMS's. They allow a user to simply upload a set of files to a website, and do all the editing client side without having to open up the FTP. It's really your choice when to use a CMS. If you have a client whose going to want frequent updates, you can use something like wordpress so she can edit it herself. However, CMS's don't cause every website using the same CMS to look the same. Many times there's a variety of pre made themes you can use, or you can even make your own.

http://wordpress.org
http://joomla.com
http://expressionengine.com
http://drupal.org

VIPStephan
03-29-2012, 02:14 AM
Anywho, I read a lot of devs saying cms is boring...and repetitive...it makes sites look the same and takes away uniqueness.

That’s crap. A CMS is only the backbone of a site. Good CMSs have a modular approach and allow for theming so you can create very unique and different layouts while using one and the same CMS in the background.

Have a look at three sites I developed with my favorite CMS, “CMS Made Simple”; they look totally different:

http://schwarzkaffee.de
http://spielvereinigungsued.de
http://fortissimoband.de




Its even a challange to learn.


Yes, there is a learning curve, as with any software. Different CMSs have different learning curves, however, and if you test some you will find that you dig some CMS more than another one. It’s also often a matter of your style of working.



Can u be a web developer this day in age without learning cms. Simply. Having your clients files loaded ontheir ftp server badabing badaboom. None of this cms malarkey.

Yes, you can. But don’t be annoyed if they come to you perpetually, and ask you to change this text and that image. These are things that a CMS can help with for people without HTML knowledge.



Also what's this about collaborating...cms allows people to collab? Collab what? The development process? Or does cms help setup like.... user sign in and commenting and forums, ahhh lightbulb effect..

In a good CMS you can set-up several users with their own user account and login info. They can sign in on the website and then edit the contents of the site. So, theoretically, they could work on the website online at the same time, all across the globe. You could call that collaboration, I guess.



.so if I'm building a site for a client who needs NO community, just simple site for people to go to n see prices.....I DON'T need cms.

Exactly. Except, if they want to change a price or image and have no knowledge of HTML they’d have to ask you everytime. If you know that’s not going to happen often or are happy to do these tasks then you’re fine without a CMS.



But if a client wants something where people register to buy crap like tshirts or w/e and comment reviews on the tshirts n stuff, go with a cms?


Definitely. There’s no way around this.

d'Anconia
03-29-2012, 02:54 AM
I, personally, have found that learning CMS is low-priority if you want thorough control over the details of your website. Most CMS-driven sites I see are blogs (written, video, or audio) which aren't the most interactive.

Obviously this is a generalization but if I had to summarize CMS I would say it, for the most part, is for people who either don't want to learn the coding or just can't learn the coding.

About a year ago I took the dive into PHP & MySQL and wouldn't trade the experience in for anything. Just my .02.

ConcreteWaves
03-29-2012, 03:53 AM
Thank you everyone - each of your replies helps clear things up in my mind a little more. So some questions build though - if the customer can edit their own website through the CMS you implemented into the site - why would they pay you each month to upkeep their site? Or is that the beauty, you only need to work on it when there are major changes, yet you still collect a monthly payment or what not?

VIPStephen, I like your work, it's sleek. I'm not asking exactly, but i'm new to this and curious - how much would u charge someone for a site like http://fortissimoband.de to make - and then how much a month to maintain? If that's too personal, you can private message ^_^ I wanna get good like that. Not all for the money, but of course gotta support the family, but cuz it's rewarding to me.

So - you all say it's necessary for me to learn CMS's. But I should first learn full html, css, php and javascript before I dabble with CMS?

Or should I go learn HTML and CSS fully, then dabble with a CMS, then get into PHP and Javascript?

Curious about which direction in learning ORDER i should take. Because once I get the CSS and HTML...so my page LOOKS how I want it, i wanna start creating pages and doing cool stuff with php and javascript.

teedoff
03-30-2012, 03:29 AM
So - you all say it's necessary for me to learn CMS's. But I should first learn full html, css, php and javascript before I dabble with CMS?

Or should I go learn HTML and CSS fully, then dabble with a CMS, then get into PHP and Javascript?


Yes, yes, and yes..lol Dude just jump in and learn. I personally would go with html/css and server-side first, because those are the backbone of a well designed dynamic site. Database as well. Javascript is great, but in my opinion you can actually live without it for most websites. Not saying never learn js, just not the first priority.

As you're learning those, epsecially server-side languages, you suprisingly see how easy catching on to a CMS system becomes.

ConcreteWaves
03-30-2012, 06:42 AM
Dude just jump in and learn. i am i am lol it's just overwhelming at first all the abbreviations and languages for crap. I'm slowly getting it though, I'm the type to learn as I go...so I definitely am practicing my coding as I ask for questions on it. :) :)

VIPStephan
03-30-2012, 09:29 AM
I'm not asking exactly, but i'm new to this and curious - how much would u charge someone for a site like http://fortissimoband.de to make - and then how much a month to maintain?

Well, this was a work for some friends so I didn’t charge what I would usually charge but something around 1500€ (around $2000) would it be, I guess. And I charge nothing to maintain because there’s (almost) nothing for me to maintain. The client can update the contents themselves etc. The only thing for me to do is updating the CMS and do some bigger changes if the client requests (like adding new functionality, changing the layout, or whatever). But that’s not a recurring monthly thing, it’s only done sporadically.

You might think that you’d lose money if you provided the client the possibility to update the content themselves rather than hiring you but once you get into the professional web developer scene you’ll notice that there are more important things to do rather than updating contents for clients, and this would only annoy you after a while. Also, it might be annoying for the client to ask you for every little change they wanna make because this also takes time (waiting for reply/reaction to a request etc.).



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