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View Full Version : Apple equals Microsoft



drhowarddrfine
05-25-2010, 05:30 AM
Link (http://www.google.com/finance?q=aapl%2C+msft)
If you don't know, market capitalization is the value of a company. It's computed by taking the number of market shares outstanding and multiplying them by the stock price. Apple is within about 2% of Microsoft. Apple also has more cash on hand. Hmm.

Fumigator
05-25-2010, 07:13 AM
If only a company's stock price had anything to do with the actual value of a company. That would be nice.

drhowarddrfine
05-25-2010, 01:10 PM
If only a company's stock price had anything to do with the actual value of a company.
Market capitalization IS the actual financial value of the company.

TheShaner
05-25-2010, 02:19 PM
Market capitalization IS the actual financial value of the company.

Incorrect. Market capitalization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_capitalization) is a MARKET ESTIMATE of the company's financial value and only includes equity. It can also be swayed by public opinion with something like a future/current release, i.e. Apple's iPad.

Enterprise Value (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterprise_value) is more comprehensive because it takes into account all other factors of a business, like debt.

That being said, searches for Enterprise Value led me to Yahoo finances, which says Apple's EV is 201.38B (yCharts: $200.60B), while Microsoft's is 199.04B (yCharts: $196.73B). I would say that is much more impressive than comparing market capitalizations of the two companies.

This article (http://techcrunch.com/2010/03/26/apple-microsoft-stock/) was written March, 26, 2010, but is relevant to what we're talking about here.

-Shane

drhowarddrfine
05-25-2010, 03:59 PM
Market capitalization IS the actual financial value of the company.

Market capitalization is a MARKET ESTIMATE of the company's financial value
Gee, Shaner. I'm glad I have you around to call me incorrect on such statements. You are just so good at this. Like you had a dictionary or something. Not that I think you have any real experience or knowledge of this.

VIPStephan
05-25-2010, 05:37 PM
Not that I think you have any real experience or knowledge of this.

Thatís the point. How do you come to the conclusion that you are the only one whoís omniscient?

drhowarddrfine
05-25-2010, 05:59 PM
That’s the point. How do you come to the conclusion that you are the only one who’s omniscient?

Don't be insulting. Defining what market cap is, and then have him come back with the same definition while calling mine wrong, does not make me "omniscient" nor does it make him knowledgeable. Did you just come here to insult me or did you even bother to notice his word for word is almost the same as mine?

I've been trading stocks since the late 90s. What's your experience? What's Shaner's?

Fumigator
05-25-2010, 06:01 PM
Drdr who spit in your cheerios this morning? Good lord.

drhowarddrfine
05-25-2010, 06:40 PM
Drdr who spit in your cheerios this morning? Good lord.

VIP and Shaner did.

Fumigator
05-25-2010, 07:19 PM
Market capitalization IS the actual financial value of the company.

BTW I wasn't talking about "financial" value but "actual" value... the actual value has little to do with what its market value (or market cap, or whatever you want to call it) is. Are you seriously going to say you can take a company's assets and equity and debt and whatever else contributes to a company's actual value and it will equal stock price * shares? LOLipops.

VIPStephan
05-25-2010, 08:15 PM
The whole is more than just the sum of its parts.
Or: quantity != quality.

MattF
05-25-2010, 08:28 PM
I just love grumpy git threads. :D

TheShaner
05-25-2010, 08:56 PM
Gee, Shaner. I'm glad I have you around to call me incorrect on such statements. You are just so good at this. Like you had a dictionary or something. Not that I think you have any real experience or knowledge of this.
If you're going to correct someone as if you know all, then you better fact check your own arrogant statements. Your statement saying that market cap is the same as the "ACTUAL financial value of the company" is wrong - it's an estimate based on their public shares. You should have learned this when you were trading during the dot-com bubble.

Anyway, I'm glad you continue to enjoy my presence here, and are still so gracious when receiving criticism. It wouldn't be the same if I weren't able to get under your skin anymore :p

If everyone agreed with everyone's opinions, this would be a pretty boring place. I just happen to disagree with you more than I disagree with others because you allow your pride and "self-appointed superiority" to dominate your personality here, which yields extremely partial posts and sarcastic, arrogant responses from you.

Regardless, I still enjoy your threads because conflict and debate are what make things interesting. You're the shock jock of the forums, and people continue to tune in to your posts just to see what you'll say next. I'm sure your ego enjoys at least that bit of attention, haha.

I'll be around Howard ;)

-Shane

drhowarddrfine
05-25-2010, 10:10 PM
If you're going to correct someone as if you know all, then you better fact check your own arrogant statements.Rather than run to a dictionary like you had to do and act like you know something? You don't know that those are the numbers followed by those who track the market and those who are trying to value a company. You want to act all superior because you nit-pick that, when a company is valued for, say, purchase, far more is put into the valuation of that company, but you ignore that these valuations also play part when companies are bought/sold. It's petty ignorance on your part that makes life here difficult and plays into your childish playground bully antics and shows your character.

Rather than go with what the thread is about, you hijack it to inflate YOUR ego. To make you act like the big man on campus. You can't comment on the topic because you don't know anything about it. Therefore, you had to pick a fight to make you look good. How small of you.

MattF
05-26-2010, 04:37 AM
No real point to this post, but I just thought it might lighten the tone a tad. :D












http://daemon4x4.org/board/gallery/3/1274821291gorilla.jpg

TheShaner
05-26-2010, 01:50 PM
You don't know that those are the numbers followed by those who track the market and those who are trying to value a company.
You finally said it correct - "trying to value a company". It's an estimate, not an actual. But let me quote you yet again so you know what I was disagreeing with...

Market capitalization IS the actual financial value of the company.
And again, it's not. If you would have responded to Fumigator talking about the importance of using market cap when trying to value a company, then there wouldn't have been a disagreement. Instead, you insisted that market cap = actual value. That's the only problem I had.


You want to act all superior because you nit-pick that...
There is a difference between acting superior, and disagreeing with a statement. I disagreed with your statement. You act superior on a daily basis on these forums, and many members have pointed that out on lots of your threads. Has anyone but you said that of me? How many have said it about you? Stop turning a blind eye on how you act and present yourself on these forums, and stop playing the "everyone's against me and I don't understand" card. There's an obvious reason which you refuse to acknowledge.


It's petty ignorance on your part that makes life here difficult and plays into your childish playground bully antics and shows your character.
Life here difficult? How old are you again? I, honestly, should have no effect on you and your life here or elsewhere. If you are having a difficult time taking criticism and debating, then move on. It's that simple. I only attack your character when you reply in a sarcastic, demeaning, arrogant manner, which, unfortunately, is a majority of your responses.


Rather than go with what the thread is about, you hijack it to inflate YOUR ego. To make you act like the big man on campus. You can't comment on the topic because you don't know anything about it. Therefore, you had to pick a fight to make you look good. How small of you.
Actually, I did go with what the thread was about. I disagreed with your ONE statement, but I posted my findings on EVs of the two companies, which supported your findings, and an article that talked about the market cap of both MS and Apple, which, again, agreed with your findings. So there was no hijacking done by me. But of course, you don't see that because as soon as someone disagrees with one thing you say, you get all upset and begin attacking people. Your demeaning, sarcastic responses is what has drawn the other off-topic responses here.

-Shane

drhowarddrfine
05-26-2010, 11:34 PM
And, today, Apple passed Microsoft in valuation.
Link (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/27/technology/27apple.html?emc=na)


Wall Street has called the end of an era and the beginning of the next one: The most important technology product no longer sits on your desk but rather fits in your hand.

The moment was marked Wednesday when Apple, the maker of iPods, iPhones and iPads, shot past Microsoft, the computer software giant, to become the world’s most valuable technology company.

This changing of the guard caps one of the most stunning turnarounds in business history for Apple...


And this is my last post on codingforums.

VIPStephan
05-27-2010, 01:09 AM
Apple equals Microsoft in more than market value (or capitalization or whatever) with each step towards restricting open access. Give them the power and they’ll (mis-)use it.

Fumigator
05-27-2010, 02:48 AM
VIPStephan I have no idea how drdr is going to be able to resist responding to to that zinger! :eek: We'll see.

MattF
05-27-2010, 09:05 AM
And this is my last post on codingforums.

Oh do stop it. That's just silliness. There's nowt wrong with being a cantankerous, condescending tw@t. However, it's awfully annoying when someone is one of those but then has the affrontery to come the Princess attitude and act badly done to. Either speak to people like sh1te and accept the fact that you will get the same in return and take it on the chin when so, or don't speak to people like sh1te. One or the other, but you cannot have the penny and the bun. Christ, if we all came with that attitude when we get into a disagreement with someone as bombastic as ourselves, we'd end up never going online again.

Now, grow up girls. Give it and take the consequences or just don't give it.

loveripad
06-03-2010, 04:59 PM
Boy o boy! Is this really that important? I mean itís natural for anyone to find wrong in someoneís point here and there but going on with the arguing so long is definitely not that necessary. Anyway let me get to the point! I think what Shane has said here is actually correct and I support him. Market cap cannot be the equal to actual value. Thatís what I have known all these times. Anyway good speech Shane!



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