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View Full Version : Ie 9



brad211987
03-05-2010, 12:47 AM
http://thenextweb.com/apps/2010/03/04/internet-explorer-9-html5-compatible-microsoft-joining-antiflash-movement/

Quick and interesting read. I've thought for a while that their constantly declining market share would inevitably push them to start catching up to standards. If they really do hit both HTML 5 support and ACID 3 success, I'll be impressed. I'm not sure about the Apple connection in the article though, seems like a stretch to me.

Only problem that would really remain, is to convince people to get off of IE 6, 7, and 8.

Azzaboi
03-05-2010, 01:42 AM
That sites navigation is all messed up and shows over the top of the content making it a nightmare to read. And umm why is it anti-flash? Microsoft already tried getting rid of Java, failed, now it's Flash?

drhowarddrfine
03-05-2010, 04:55 AM
The article's a bit over the top. He's talking about IE9 plans to be HTML5 compatible yet HTML5 won't be finalized for 10 more years so how they gonna do that? Also, any mention of passing Acid3 is dangerous since the current IE9 test shows it gets 23/100. Long way to go.

In addition, Microsoft just joined the SVG working group a couple months ago yet, at MIX, they're giving a talk on the technology. IE is the only browser that doesn't support SVG while all the others have done so for many years so it seems to me Microsoft should be sitting in on a talk, not giving one.

Plus, SVG is an XML technology. For IE9 to support SVG, they'd have to support XHTML like other more modern browsers do but Microsoft has already said they won't support XHTML in IE9. So how they gonna do that?

What do they mean by "strong support for HTML5"? MS has never said since they made that statement two or three years ago. Does this just mean they'll finally recognize HTML elements so they can be styled instead of ignoring them which they do now? What about canvas, video and audio elements?

Are they going to add all that by next year? Too many questions for a browser trying to compete with the others where all those questions are known or have been answered long ago.

As far as anti-flash is concerned, HTML5 has video/audio elements and canvas that can do most, if not all, of what Flash does so some say it's anti-flash because it will work on any browser on any platform without plugins, a serious problem Flash has.

brad211987
03-05-2010, 04:24 PM
Also, any mention of passing Acid3 is dangerous since the current IE9 test shows it gets 23/100. Long way to go.

Exactly, as I said, I'll be completely impressed. I'm having a hard time seeing it as even possible. As for the HTML5 support, many browsers support a large subset of HTML 5 even though it is not finalized, no reason IE couldn't, whether or not they will is completely different. I do think they will move faster then they have in the past, as IE market share gets smaller and smaller, they will have to either step it up to compete or drop the browser altogether in order for it to make any business sense. Can't say I'd be disappointed with either scenario though.

drhowarddrfine
03-05-2010, 04:44 PM
Elsewhere I showed a link where Opera claims their downloads have increased 3x since March 1 when the ballot box became available. Firefox stated today they crossed the 100 million manual downloads mark. That is, downloads that weren't being done as part of an update.

Apostropartheid
03-16-2010, 06:41 PM
Some of IE9 is being presented today. I thought you guys might want to check out Gawker's constantly-updated coverage (http://gizmodo.com/5494574/internet-explorer-9-a-fresh-start).

drhowarddrfine
03-16-2010, 07:05 PM
And here is a more realistic view (http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2010/03/platform-preview-gives-web-developers-first-taste-of-ie9.ars?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss) of IE9 at MIX.

Microsoft claims support of things in the Gawker article but reality sets in and you realize support in Microsoft's eyes is not the same as what the rest of us see.


This lack of information about IE9 would be bearable if we had some kind of timeline for the browser, but Microsoft insists it doesn't yet know when it will be ready. IE6 was tied to the release of Windows XP, IE7 was tied to the release of Windows Vista, and IE8 was tied to the release of Windows 7. Will IE9 be tied to the release of Windows 8? Microsoft isn't saying; the company won't even tell us if the browser will be ready this year or in 2011—or even when we might expect a beta.

Apostropartheid
03-16-2010, 07:07 PM
The demos they're showing are quite cool, though, and work well. I'd be much happier if HTML5 video were present in the preview build.

drhowarddrfine
03-16-2010, 08:38 PM
The demos are nothing I haven't seen on the other browsers.

Fumigator
03-16-2010, 11:04 PM
The demos are nothing I haven't seen on the other browsers.

If IE9 cooked your meals, cleaned your house, and mowed your lawn you'd still gripe and moan that it doesn't do windows :D

(check out that double meaning! I'm so clever!)

drhowarddrfine
03-16-2010, 11:49 PM
If IE9 cooked your meals, cleaned your house, and mowed your lawn you'd still gripe and moan that it doesn't do windows :D

(check out that double meaning! I'm so clever!)

It doesn't do Windows (XP that is).

Hachamovitch stopped short of explicitly saying that XP would not be supported, but said that building a "modern browser" required a "modern operating system." IE9 will be heavily dependent on hardware acceleration, courtesy of its use of Direct2D and DirectWrite; neither API is available on Windows XP

VIPStephan
03-17-2010, 01:03 AM
C’mon people. Windows XP is how old now? You don’t hear anybody complain that Safari isn’t supported on Mac OS 9. Or that we can’t run IE 6 on Windows 3.1 (OK, I know Win 3.1 isn’t an operating system but you know what I mean).

If the content of the websites is backwards compatible in any browser in terms of graceful degradation that’s more we could ask for already. Unfortunately this ain’t in Microsoft’s hands but in the hands of thousands of bad web developers.

drhowarddrfine
03-17-2010, 01:49 AM
The first tests came out on SVG and I was right. Microsoft claims support for SVG yet only passes 10 of 28 tests in that suite while one of the SVG guys gave it a 28% rating on his chart of compliance.

MattF
03-17-2010, 02:39 AM
For IE9 to support SVG, they'd have to support XHTML like other more modern browsers do but Microsoft has already said they won't support XHTML in IE9. So how they gonna do that?

Why aren't they supporting XHTML? It's far more widely spread than HTML5 is ever likely to be.

drhowarddrfine
03-17-2010, 05:06 AM
Well, things have changed. Apparently IE9 will support XHTML, the first IE to ever do so.

I was thinking, why is everybody excited about the things IE9 is supposed to do two years from now when they can get all that right now with any other non-IE browser?

Fumigator
03-17-2010, 08:38 AM
Hey hey, don't lump me in with everybody else... I'm not excited.

MattF
03-17-2010, 09:56 AM
Hey hey, don't lump me in with everybody else... I'm not excited.

I'll second that. :D

drhowarddrfine
03-17-2010, 02:18 PM
Hey hey, don't lump me in with everybody else... I'm not excited.

Not you, but there are posts and articles I've seen raving about IE9 as if it meant anything.

Apostropartheid
03-17-2010, 06:20 PM
Of course it means something. Maybe outright praise is too much, but Europe is the sole market with browser options and also the one most penetrated by modern browsers. Support for things like SVG and HTML5 video means we can realistically begin to use it.

MattF
03-17-2010, 06:24 PM
means we can realistically begin to use it.

Call me a pessimist, but I'll believe that will ever happen with IE the day I actually see it. It must be getting chilly down in Hell if it's true. :D

drhowarddrfine
03-17-2010, 07:53 PM
Of course it means something.

Support for things like SVG and HTML5 video means we can realistically begin to use it.

Yes, you have a point, though IE is still slowly sinking in market share, it still holds back the web for reasons such as that it would be good for the web if it would just go away cause there are far more things it still can't handle which some devs won't use because of that. For example, IE9 adds SVG yet only supports 28% of the spec and fails 18 of 28 tests. Other browsers have 100% supported SVG for over 7 years!

It has no support for canvas and lacks support for box-shadow, transform, CSS gradients, CSS animations and others and only gets 55/100 on Acid3 while all the others get 100/100 or close to it.

It's interesting they decided to go with H.264 for the video element which is patent encumbered but so did Chrome.

VIPStephan
03-18-2010, 02:29 AM
I was thinking, why is everybody excited about the things IE9 is supposed to do two years from now when they can get all that right now with any other non-IE browser?

For exactly this reason. Itís like if you come so late to a meeting that people arenít mad at you anymore for being late but rather they are glad that you appeared at all. :D

drhowarddrfine
03-18-2010, 04:24 AM
But if no one wanted to open the champagne cause you weren't there then you're screwing up the party.



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