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View Full Version : Be careful who you code for



tomws
11-13-2009, 09:50 PM
If you're familiar with at least headlines, you know something about the Bernie Madoff scheme that has been in the news for the last year or so. The arrests related to the scam have continued even after his 150 year prison sentence.

Now, two programmers have been charged with criminal offenses that "carry maximum prison sentences of 30 years and millions of dollars in fines". Why? In short, because they created custom code for the Madoff firm to use in their scam.

While it's unlikely that many of us will ever run into something that large, it still ought to make us think twice when considering customer requests. These guys lived large for a while, but I'd bet they're headed for the federal pen.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33909310/ns/business-us_business/

Fumigator
11-13-2009, 11:01 PM
Interesting, though the only way you could be culpable is if you knew you were participating in fraud. I'm not sure the law backs me up on this but logically that's the way it should work.

Otherwise you could arrest the milkman for delivering milk to Madoff's house.

Spookster
11-13-2009, 11:05 PM
Interesting, though the only way you could be culpable is if you knew you were participating in fraud. I'm not sure the law backs me up on this but logically that's the way it should work.

Otherwise you could arrest the milkman for delivering milk to Madoff's house.

or the car companies for making the cars he used to drive to meet with his victims.

oracleguy
11-13-2009, 11:20 PM
Interesting, though the only way you could be culpable is if you knew you were participating in fraud. I'm not sure the law backs me up on this but logically that's the way it should work.

Otherwise you could arrest the milkman for delivering milk to Madoff's house.

In this case based on the article, there was a high probability they knew what they were doing was illegal. They wrote the programs that were critical to the success of the deception. So the Nuremberg defense (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Defense) doesn't really work.

Deacon Frost
11-22-2009, 11:39 AM
or the car companies for making the cars he used to drive to meet with his victims.

Or the farmers who gathered food, the FDA for approving the food, the distributor for supplying the food, the cook for preparing the food, McDonalds for selling him the food, and all of McDonalds' customers who have ever purchased food from McDonalds allowing them to stay in business and conduct their evil schemes with the farmers to sell food to Madoff just so he could eat enough to stay alive and victimize poor, unwilling folk.


So yeah... no worries here.

OGGordon
11-22-2009, 02:54 PM
150 years haha. I don't understand these ridiculous sentences. How do you serve 150 years?

brad211987
11-22-2009, 05:34 PM
150 years haha. I don't understand these ridiculous sentences. How do you serve 150 years?

Once you die, they toss your kids in jail.

OGGordon
11-22-2009, 09:50 PM
Once you die, they toss your kids in jail.

haha, what if you don't have any kids/relatives?

brad211987
11-23-2009, 12:34 AM
haha, what if you don't have any kids/relatives?

co-workers i hope? haha

bradleyjcb
11-25-2009, 05:13 PM
or probably neighbors??? LOL

just a thought, when you do hear these kind of sentences of courts - you would certainly like to ask "Your Honor, did you even bother thinking about the decision ??? "

eu4ria
11-25-2009, 10:49 PM
Its probably to make sure they stay in prison, rather than when somone gets 10 years for murder but is out in 6 because of good behaviour.

With 150 years there is no early parole :D

Fou-Lu
11-26-2009, 07:05 AM
Its probably to make sure they stay in prison, rather than when somone gets 10 years for murder but is out in 6 because of good behaviour.

With 150 years there is no early parole :D

Sure there is, just gotta wait 75 years to get it :thumbsup:

Deacon Frost
11-26-2009, 10:45 AM
or probably neighbors??? LOL

just a thought, when you do hear these kind of sentences of courts - you would certainly like to ask "Your Honor, did you even bother thinking about the decision ??? "

The problem is... a few hundred years ago when public executions were common, they would say things like "Blah blah blah, to be hung by the neck"... but they never put the "till death" part on it. So, when they fell, if the rope broke, they were allowed to go free... then someone caught on...

The judge can't say "I sentence you to jail, until death". It's illegal. He has to give a number based on the number of offenses, and people simply have to hope they die. So, they basically say "I sentence you to 10 consecutive life sentences", life sentence being anywhere from like 20 to 50 years or something like that, idf remember. But yeah... it's a legal loophole for them to sound nice... and such.

o0O0o.o0O0o
11-27-2009, 01:22 AM
haha, what if you don't have any kids/relatives?

I think then they will force you to have kids first :D

it career
11-27-2009, 05:28 AM
If you're familiar with at least headlines, you know something about the Bernie Madoff scheme that has been in the news for the last year or so. The arrests related to the scam have continued even after his 150 year prison sentence.

Now, two programmers have been charged with criminal offenses that "carry maximum prison sentences of 30 years and millions of dollars in fines". Why? In short, because they created custom code for the Madoff firm to use in their scam.

While it's unlikely that many of us will ever run into something that large, it still ought to make us think twice when considering customer requests. These guys lived large for a while, but I'd bet they're headed for the federal pen.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33909310/ns/business-us_business/

Must be some crap law which is allowing it , if I code a web site as a freelance web designer , later the guy sells it a criminal and the web site is used to scam people , should I be held responsible ?

drhowarddrfine
11-27-2009, 05:53 AM
Must be some crap law which is allowing it , if I code a web site as a freelance web designer , later the guy sells it a criminal and the web site is used to scam people , should I be held responsible ?

Big difference:

Two computer programmers designed codes to falsify thousands of fake trade blotters and phantom records for swindler Bernard Madoff and took hush money to help keep the massive fraud going

ajdv
11-27-2009, 08:35 AM
i think some crap law which is allowing it

oracleguy
11-28-2009, 03:19 AM
Must be some crap law which is allowing it , if I code a web site as a freelance web designer , later the guy sells it a criminal and the web site is used to scam people , should I be held responsible ?

If you knew the site was designed to be fraudulent, then yes you would be responsible.

MWick
11-28-2009, 05:38 AM
If they were aware of the person that they were creating the code for and what it would be used for, then yes but otherwise they should not have been involved.



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