Looking for dedicated php programmer

[SpaceDevelop]

Team name:
Team solo

Project name:
Spacegeek

Brief description:
Spacegeek, for lack of a better project name, will be/is a browser based RPG played by thousands of players. I have a working demo up and I would like to gather a team of people who would be interested in helping me produce a commercial quality browser game..

Target aim:
Free to play. Pay for perks.

Compensation:
No upfront pay. This would be a volunteer your time project but has potential to make sales in the near future. ( inside of one month ).

Technology:
Compatible with IE8/firefox/chrome/other popular browsers. Technology mainly used is php/mysql.
Talent needed:
Game designer. Looking for a competent(amateur or professional) game designer who has a fascination with space games/mmos and can help develop a REALISTIC game design document.

PHP/MYSQL programmer. Looking for one great php/mysql programmer to fill the roll of lead developer. I would enjoy finding someone with a lot of spare time over the winter so we can roll this out as fast as possible. Experience with AJAX or similar technologies a plus. Python experience would be great but not required.

Team structure:
me. I am an entreprenuer that has been working part time in this industry ( browser games ) for several years. I have managed existing game projects and brought to life game projects from the ground up with little to no seed money. I have records showing potential candidates proof of income from various sites that exceed $xx,xxx per year in passive income. ( IE: income that just rolls in after the project is complete ).

My role in this project will be to bring it to life in terms of money. I will pay for dedicated servers, I will pay for any third party content we need, and things of that nature. I have a small advertising budget of around $1,000 per month USD in mind that I will also pay for out of pocket. Most importantly, I will offer drive and dedication required to start and complete a project of this size. You the game designer and/or programmer will have 100% of my focus and support.

Website:
http://www.mafiatruth.com

This is a silly domain name obviously, and is only a placeholder until the future team decides on a good name. This is also only a mockup of what I intend to do with our game, and can be scratched or built on depending on the goals of the game designer/programmer.

Contacts:
Please PM on codingforums with your contact information and I will get in touch with you quickly.

Previous Work by me:
Several mainstream browser games that can be shown as proof on request. I do not want to link any sites here as they've been sold and I am no longer part of them.

[Fumigator]

Well... I guess I'm going to be the jerk on this one...

Sounds like there are lots of promises with nothing to back them up.

You claim you have gone through this process successfully a number of times, yet you have no capital to invest in a lead developer? Smells bad, really bad.

You don't even own the domain spacegeek, or geekspace, whatever it is. How much is that going to cost you? Why can't you pay your developer if you've got money for advertising and a domain name and a stock text browser game you bought for $29? Why is the developer always the sucker to shoulder the risk?

You want someone with lots of free time to develop this thing for free? I guess you're looking for a 16 yo living in Mom's basement.... Or an inmate with internet access.

The more I think about the sheer audacity of your proposal the more annoyed I get. Oh, and you don't even have a great game design-- you want a designer to come up with a great game for free too! So my future revenue stream as a developer is solely dependant on your ability to attract a game designer with the accumen to come up with a great design, meanwhile paying him/her nothing. As we all know, sucky games don't sustain revenue, so a great game is a must for this whole plan to work. I wonder how many great game designers are out of work/school living in Mom's basement just waiting for this offer to come along? Hmm...

And finally, let's say my BFF is a fantastic game designer and I'm a crack developer. Why do we need you? You don't even have the domain! You'll buy the servers??? You'll give me your 100% focus? In other words, you'll be breathing down my neck pressuring me 23 hours a day the entire time I'm developing the game. This is a good thing? Oi. Oi. Oi.

[SpaceDevelop]

Hi,

I was wondering why it took you so long to flame my legitimate thread. The mods really should consider not allowing people to bash people's threads. It is a legitimate offer, and it should really be up to a sole person to decide if the project is right for them or not, don't you think?

"Sounds like there are lots of promises with nothing to back them up."

That's pretty silly don't you think? What exactly do I need to backup? I'm not a schoolboy with a dream and a dollar, I have experience and records backing up my statements.

"You claim you have gone through this process successfully a number of times, yet you have no capital to invest in a lead developer? Smells bad, really bad."

Again, here you are assuming things. I'm looking for someone that wants to make some money and has a passion for gaming. If I wanted to go out and spend $10/hr on a programmer from another country I can whip out my credit card in a new york minute just like anyone else in America can. I'm looking for talent.

You don't even own the domain spacegeek, or geekspace, whatever it is.

Perhaps it's because there isn't a final name yet, and I want a group of us to decide the name. I'm not running a dictatorship.

Oh, and you don't even have a great game design-- you want a designer to come up with a great game for free too!

This position has been filled. Thank you for your concern.

And finally, let's say my BFF is a fantastic game designer and I'm a crack developer. Why do we need you?

Because I have a budget that can make dreams come to reality promptly. Secondly, I have experience and understand how to run a successful game.


Lastly I would like to say, Troll somewhere else, I'm not a pushover that will let you walk all over me.

[JBrace1990]

I might be interested in this if you can provide proof.

I can do PHP, MySQL, Flex, and some JS. Graphic design isn't my thing.

[Fumigator]

OK, OK, I'll get off your case, maybe you are legit... too bad you don't offer anything to establish your credibility (surely you must see how laughable that seems), but I guess we can just assume (fool's errand) you are everything you claim to be.

I'm not trolling, FYI, trolling indicates I just want to get a rise out of you. That's not my intention at all. My intention is to shed light on the risk involved and the absolute long shot a project like this is to other developers who may be lured into donating free services so they can be made aware of the situation. It can be quite appealing to young promising coders, dreams of riches if only they will donate 1,000 hours of their own time to a failsafe project. Of course, most people won't learn from mistakes of others, they have to go through the process and get royally burned themselves before the lesson is learned. Such is life. If I help one coder avoid the pitfall, my job is done. I am the coder's Robinhood. OK maybe not Robinhood... maybe... Hancock.

Just one parting shot: If you are so confident in your ability to bring a game to market which will make tons of $$$, why are you so unwilling to front the $$$ to hire a team? Are there really that many desperate programmers out here who will take on all the risk themselves?

[SpaceDevelop]

Just one parting shot: If you are so confident in your ability to bring a game to market which will make tons of $$$, why are you so unwilling to front the $$$ to hire a team?

I'm not unwilling honestly, I am only seeing first if I HAVE to part with the money. Look at it from my viewpoint. If I can find someone who is knowledgeable and dedicated ( yes, they exist ), and they don't require a large portion of money upfront, I will definitely choose them over someone else who wants 10 grand in cash before they'll even think about starting. It's less risk for me. I understand the developer puts forth a lot of risk by taking on such a deal but look at it from my viewpoint. I intend to push thousands of dollars into the project and I'd like to see things accomplished before I start doing so.

[SpaceDevelop]

I might be interested in this if you can provide proof.

I can do PHP, MySQL, Flex, and some JS. Graphic design isn't my thing.


Proof sent via PM.

[oracleguy]

Hi,

I was wondering why it took you so long to flame my legitimate thread. The mods really should consider not allowing people to bash people's threads. It is a legitimate offer, and it should really be up to a sole person to decide if the project is right for them or not, don't you think?

...

Lastly I would like to say, Troll somewhere else, I'm not a pushover that will let you walk all over me.

While I can see how Fumigator's post might seem like trolling, it isn't. You have to see it from the opposite prospective, when you see lots of people with ideas looking for a developer, it is hard to distinguish between the ideas that won't get off the ground and the ones that have potential. I can't even count the number of people wanting to get rich by making myspace/facebook/youtube/mafia game clones that I've seen. Asking those kinds of questions is a way to see how well you've really thought it through.

Just one parting shot: If you are so confident in your ability to bring a game to market which will make tons of $$$, why are you so unwilling to front the $$$ to hire a team?

I'm not unwilling honestly, I am only seeing first if I HAVE to part with the money. Look at it from my viewpoint. If I can find someone who is knowledgeable and dedicated ( yes, they exist ), and they don't require a large portion of money upfront, I will definitely choose them over someone else who wants 10 grand in cash before they'll even think about starting. It's less risk for me. I understand the developer puts forth a lot of risk by taking on such a deal but look at it from my viewpoint. I intend to push thousands of dollars into the project and I'd like to see things accomplished before I start doing so.

See and that comes off bad/insulting to a seasoned developer, considering developing the game is 90% of the actual work. But if you aren't looking for someone with a lot (or any) of experience that is fine, it is best to clarify that. However you do get what you pay for in as far as skill.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want you to fail, in fact the opposite. It would be great to see you succeed. Done right, the game could be pretty fun.

[bcarl314]

My only comment is, this is posted in the project / collaboration forum - not the large projects forum. I expect posts in this category to be exactly like this one - risky for a developer. I would expect anyone willing to take on this projects to ask tough questions. However, I also think such questions should be limited to more private conversations.

No reason to air dirty laundry publicly IMO.

[SpaceDevelop]

While I can see how Fumigator's post might seem like trolling, it isn't. You have to see it from the opposite prospective, when you see lots of people with ideas looking for a developer, it is hard to distinguish between the ideas that won't get off the ground and the ones that have potential. I can't even count the number of people wanting to get rich by making myspace/facebook/youtube/mafia game clones that I've seen. Asking those kinds of questions is a way to see how well you've really thought it through.



See and that comes off bad/insulting to a seasoned developer, considering developing the game is 90% of the actual work. But if you aren't looking for someone with a lot (or any) of experience that is fine, it is best to clarify that. However you do get what you pay for in as far as skill.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want you to fail, in fact the opposite. It would be great to see you succeed. Done right, the game could be pretty fun.


Thank you for your wisdom. I am going to let this topic brew for a few days and see what kind of talent surfaces through private messages, etc. I've decided I will ( if you'll allow me ) keep this thread up to date to show the project was started/completed.

Kind Regards,

Spacedevelop

[Rowsdower!]

My only comment is, this is posted in the project / collaboration forum - not the large projects forum. I expect posts in this category to be exactly like this one - risky for a developer. I would expect anyone willing to take on this projects to ask tough questions. However, I also think such questions should be limited to more private conversations.

No reason to air dirty laundry publicly IMO.

I was tempted to agree with this at first but the more I think about it I don't believe that's any excuse. I think the term "collaboration" really means that you will be splitting the work in a team atmosphere as opposed to performing a solo job without pay. Zero pay might be a factor in collaboration but that would presumably be in a case where the other party actually performs some of the work along side you. Buying a domain name and paying for hosting doesn't really stack up against writing, testing, and debugging thousands of lines of code.

I think the real spirit of the collaboration forum is to provide a place where coders can meet one another to work together on a project. It is a place where both parties bring something substantial to the table for development and that would be the reason why there is potential for zero pay initially while providing a profit sharing structure in the future. Risk, benefits, and workload are all spread evenly in that scenario.

I think that it just so happens that many (perhaps most) of the "I can't code and I don't want to pay you upfront" people out there end up posting here specifically because dollar amounts aren't part of the forum name. If they posted this kind of work in the other paid work forum areas then the thread would carry an implicit payment range specific to that area. If they posted in the unknown size "(request quote)" section then they would get quotes - which they don't want since they don't intend to pay for service. In fact, unless I missed it, the OP here never makes any mention at all of how the developer will be compensated. He merely says that the game has potential to make income (not necessarily profit, mind you) soon, but never offers any percentages or flat dollar amounts to be paid out. He implies - but never specifies - an equity share. We are left to assume the rest.

Not to mention that after reading this one more time:
Project collaboration/ partnership
Post a person request for collaborating with on your project. Solicitation for volunteers/ free help on an existing project NOT allowed.

I'm wondering if threads like this are even allowable in the collaboration forum in the first place.

Compensation:
No upfront pay. This would be a volunteer your time project but has potential to make sales in the near future. ( inside of one month ).

I don't mean to be so contrary. True collaboration is one thing - and it's beautiful - but welfare coding is something else entirely. I feel some of Fumigator's frustration with this all-too-common type of "gimme gimme" thread. The OP even admits that he's basically looking for a sucker to do work for free that ought to be paid. I think that is somewhat telling, really.

I'm not unwilling honestly, I am only seeing first if I HAVE to part with the money. Look at it from my viewpoint. If I can find someone who is knowledgeable and dedicated ( yes, they exist ), and they don't require a large portion of money upfront, I will definitely choose them over someone else who wants 10 grand in cash before they'll even think about starting. It's less risk for me.

Anyway, I just wanted to chime in with my own ever-valuable opinion! ;)

[SpaceDevelop]

For the record, you guys are like animals. I belive I've found someone, in the range of $5,000 USD to do the work. I took your advice and picked someone that gave me nice comments, and valuable advice. I'm not a shark out to get everyone :)
Thank you codingforums for your insight.

[PappaJohn]

For the record, you guys are like animals.
I guess that says it all! :rolleyes:

[abduraooft]

Are we talking about the OO design?
http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/1106/updown.th.png (http://img36.imageshack.us/i/updown.png/)

[Rowsdower!]

For the record, you guys are like animals. I belive I've found someone, in the range of $5,000 USD to do the work. I took your advice and picked someone that gave me nice comments, and valuable advice. I'm not a shark out to get everyone :)
Thank you codingforums for your insight.

Animal? For the record, I bear only a slight resemblance...
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/muppet/images/6/60/TF1-MuppetsTV-PhotoGallery-44-Animal.jpg

[SpaceDevelop]

Animal? For the record, I bear only a slight resemblance...
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/muppet/images/6/60/TF1-MuppetsTV-PhotoGallery-44-Animal.jpg

I don't mean to bump the thread, but I couldn't resist.

LOL.

[MattF]

For the record, you guys are like animals.

In what way?