...

View Full Version : Interesting observation



Vladdy
04-01-2003, 06:50 PM
Bad things in web design start with "F":
Frames
Frontpage
Flash
F#$%ing popups :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

oracleguy
04-01-2003, 07:37 PM
lol... thats quite interesting.

webmarkart
04-01-2003, 07:57 PM
but so does Forum!

In a lot of cases flash is overused, but it can produce "wow" sites like: www.2advanced.com/flashindex.htm

joh6nn
04-01-2003, 08:00 PM
yeah, the only of those that's inherently bad is the Nameless one ( i won't even type that F word ). Flash, Frames, Popups, they're all fine, they're just abused and misused. you can use any of those to good effect. it just requires a lot of thought, especially for frames.

mouse
04-01-2003, 08:02 PM
People who criticise Flash are generally JavaScripters and DHTMLers, yet I don't hear any branding of these techniques as evil due to missues in mouse trails, flashing junk, flying junk, floating menues, popup windows, etc, etc. :p

joh6nn
04-01-2003, 08:08 PM
... i sense a disturbance in the force ... Mousetrail, my long-time foe; we meet again. ::light-sabery noise::



how to exorcise the Demons from any given page:

javascript:for (i in self) { if (typeof self[i] == "function") { if (self[i].toString().indexOf('[native code]') < 0) {if (confirm(self[i]+"\n\nEnd this function?")) {self[i] = null;} } } }

brothercake
04-01-2003, 08:10 PM
Originally posted by mouse
People who criticise Flash are generally JavaScripters and DHTMLers ... [edited to save further embarrasment]
Touch&eacute; :D

Hey but you forgot Foxhunting ... that's pretty evil; and Flamingos ... gotta watch them critters ... but Fennel is cool, as long as you're subtle with it ...

Oh and there's <font> - now that really is inherently evil; I defy anyone to defend it ... :p

mattover-matter
04-02-2003, 01:49 PM
I am a DHTMLer :-} Why have an extra plugin when you can use 200000 lines of code to get a more changeable result? :rolleyes:

Mhtml
04-02-2003, 03:17 PM
I am a DHTMLer
Posted in Computer-PC issues:

a tad of JS and learning
:rolleyes:

Quiet Storm
04-02-2003, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by Vladdy
Bad things in web design start with "F":
Frames


What's wrong with frames?!

ASAAKI
04-02-2003, 08:02 PM
Originally posted by Quiet Storm
What's wrong with frames?!
:eek:

evoGeek
04-02-2003, 08:28 PM
*cough* *cough* flash rules *cough* ee emm excuse me :D

Lets face it fellas.. a tool is a tool is a tool. I could make a massive list supporting flash but I think we've all been through this before. No matter where your preferences lie, there is good design and bad design. Very little to do with how you get there. It's all about the end user experience.

ps what is up with those (ahhhhhhhhh i hate them!!!) unclosable popup windows that slide around the screen. What a terrible approach at design.. and so popular right now.. hates it we do.

duniyadnd
04-05-2003, 05:42 PM
Got to disagree with the frames part, more and more sites are designing them better, and utilizing them better when they use it.

Flash -> Depending on what the site is there for... They could be overused...

Duniyadnd

justame
04-06-2003, 06:19 AM
Originally posted by brothercake
1...Oh and there's <font>
2...I defy anyone to defend it

bro...
1...just a lolin'® here...:O))) n' in just a whining® kinda voice...butttttt it gets just a longgg® sooo well with netscrap 4.7...hehehe


2.../me just a takes® ya up on thattt offer...aka see 1...:O)))

Roy Sinclair
04-07-2003, 10:53 PM
I don't have the Flash player installed on my system but it's not the evils of website design that made me do that, instead it's the use of Flash in advertisements so instead of being able to quietly visit some web pages as you research something you get some obnoxious advertisement speaking to you, playing music (usually bad) to you, YELLING at you... and even popping up over the top of whatever you're actually trying to read.

Other than that, Flash is no more evil than many of the other things put into web pages like splash pages (which is incidentally a major misuse of Flash), font tags, single browser code (use IE or suffer).

brothercake
04-07-2003, 11:58 PM
Originally posted by justame
bro...
1...just a lolin'® here...:O))) n' in just a whining® kinda voice...butttttt it gets just a longgg® sooo well with netscrap 4.7...hehehe

2.../me just a takes® ya up on thattt offer...aka see 1...:O)))
Ah well ... if you challenge I repost :D

What if you do this:

<p><font color="red" size="5" face="verdana,sans-serif">Hello world</font></p>

That's quite some emphasis - it looks like a title; but in a browser that doesn't understand <font> you get nothing - just normal text. <font> has no semantic meaning at all. It would be (and always has been) better to go:

<h1>Hello world</h1>

Then with CSS we can make it red verdana; even in nutscrape 4 ;)

<font> filled a gap when we didn't have CSS but wanted style and color. More fool us I say; it's an abomination of a tag and should have never have been invented :p

jkd
04-08-2003, 12:53 AM
Screw flash, we have open, standard alternatives such as SVG.
Give me an XML format over a closed binary format any day of the week.

evoGeek
04-08-2003, 01:47 AM
Originally posted by jkd
Screw flash, we have open, standard alternatives such as SVG.
Give me an XML format over a closed binary format any day of the week.

svg sounds interesting but i can't seem to find any kick*ss examples of it in action.. Could my site be made exclusively with SVG? Just wondering why it's so rare. I checked out some samples at adobe.com and they really (really) sucked. I get the impression that it's unnessasarily complicated considering what it's doing (and what flash can do).

Frames and Font tags will fade away.. but sorry guys Flash is here to stay. hahaha. The coolest frontends (and for now some of the bunkest ones to) online are always made with flash. I can take a web graphic, import it into flash, add movement and sound and it will be smaller than the original. How can that be bad?

ps sorry i went on a bit of a tangent there.. haha I just enjoy working with flash so much. Remember years ago when it was finally possible to add pictures and (crappy) midi tracks to your site? There was soooo many sites abusing these new principles and people complained then to. These things take time to smooth out and Flash seems to be getting closer with every new release.

ahh well hahaha i think i've spouted off enough :D I love you guys you know that right? haha

mattover-matter
04-08-2003, 03:03 AM
it all depends on how you use it. I made a site with over 200 links(one for every article on the site) and then a frame in the middle which automaticcally adjusted to the height of the content, therefore no scrollbar. It looked normal, easy to edit, and it was only 1 line of code.

brothercake
04-08-2003, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by jkd
Screw flash, we have open, standard alternatives such as SVG.
Give me an XML format over a closed binary format any day of the week.
Funny you should say that ... last week I met Macromedia's european PR manager, and spent some time trying to convince her that Flash should adopt SVG and SMIL.

She had basically three answers:

- the smallest SVG plugin currently available (iirc) is a 6mb download; the Flash plugin is around 500k

- SVG is verbose - the same movie done in SVG/SMIL or Flash would be ... dunno ... maybe 10 times the file size

- why should Macromedia care anyway?

The first two reasons are the most technically relevant; there is a lot to be said for the binary format while so many people still use diallup

The third reason is the most pernitious. Her response was basically "it will never happen because we're running a business here"

I pointed out to her that even Microsoft have realised the futility of proprietary file formats; that we may see a future where consumers simply won't buy software that doesn't use open formats.

And anyway end users do not like Flash for its file format, they like it for what it does. Macromedia could spend their time developing a world-class authoring environment for generating SVG/SMIL, and a high-quality SVG plugin that's a reasonably-sized download. But I'm not gonna hold my breath :rolleyes:

btw - Flash is actually an open binary format. What would be a good, halfway house, would be some kind Flash DOM with standardised methods and syntax. But honestly, I can't see that happening either. Even the much vaunted "accessibility features" of Flash MX are not particularly fantastic - iirc the text-equivalent can only be read by two specific screenreaders (JAWS and Windows Eyes) rather than it being generally accessible through a standardised object.

Which is pretty feeble; SVG could provide total accessibility - chuck some XSL at the SVG and there you go - an XHTML version :) But still, what they have done is a lot better than flash 5. Credit to Macromedia for doing it at all - I suppose any improvement should be encouraged, even (if|though) their reasons are ultimately cynical

justame
04-08-2003, 01:37 PM
bro...
"quote...Ah well ... if you challenge I repost ...endquote"

just a hhh® well...ifin' youuu reply.../me just a hugs® hehehe...
n' just a ta® for the ol' explanation n' /me hears ya...

n' whispers...sommmeday sooon /me will get the 'code' of css...hehehe...

brothercake
04-08-2003, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by justame
n' whispers...sommmeday sooon /me will get the 'code' of css...hehehe...
We're all here for you when you're ready to dive in :D

justame
04-08-2003, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by brothercake
We're all here for you when you're ready to dive in :D

/me just a whispers® to bro...
just a rotflmao®.../me doesnt think yas got enoughhh 'pentiumprocessingpower' combined to just a support® thessseee thighs ...norrr enoughhh harrrddrivespace to just a receive® /mes questions......more just a chuckles® ....

n' wonders off...hmmm...sooo twould this be just a like® going...

class style script goes here...


n' then
<table class="whatver"><tr><td class="whatever">yadda</td></tr></table>

n' tadaaa...the ol' page twould be done...
n' thennn when the 'client' goes...heyyy we moved...can you change our just a ddress® n' its on the bottom of eevvvery .html page??? lol.... /me could just a change® the
class style script for that just a particular® td to 'read' errr print the updated just a ddress® there???


just a ps®...
"quote...Then with CSS we can make it red verdana; even in nutscrape 4 ...endquote"

ummm did /me just a detect® just a bittt® of just a nger® there??? hehehe...red??? verdana??? netscrap???

brothercake
04-08-2003, 02:44 PM
Originally posted by justame
ummm did /me just a detect® just a bittt® of just a nger® there??? hehehe...red??? verdana??? netscrap???
Perhaps ... there may have been an element of that :rolleyes:


As for using using CSS to control content ... well .. it is possible, but iirc only mozilla supports it. Check this out:


a[href*="."]:not([href*="http://"]):after {
content:" (http://www.mori.com" attr(href) ")";
}

a[href*="http://"]:after {
content:" (" attr(href) ")";
}

Your starter for 10 is to work out what it does :D

justame
04-08-2003, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by brothercake
Your starter for 10 is to work out what it does :D

bro...
just a lolin'® to be honest??? /me was going to just a copy® n' paste it into notepad in the <head> between some just a <javascript tags... n' saveee it as just a html® n' pray whennn /me hittt open...lol... n' gone to 'studypad'...hehehe...



EZ Archive Ads Plugin for vBulletin Copyright 2006 Computer Help Forum