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View Full Version : CF Chat??



Deacon Frost
07-25-2009, 10:52 PM
Like, browser chat, IRCd, something?

It'd be pretty nice to have for those of us who lurk in chat rooms :P.

EDIT:

<Shawn> Tell them you have a server etc
<Deacon> kk
<Deacon> how does dns for irc work tho? do they have to pay any extra?
<Shawn> no
<Shawn> they make an a record
<Shawn> pointing to this ip
<Shawn> port 6667


WA: Shawn (the owner of the ghostsnet server) says he's willing to talk with you about this :P. The server has fantastic up-time, it's already pretty self-maintained with several capable IRCops, C coders, and mIRC scripters. All you'd need is:

<Shawn> whoever owns the nameserver needs to do it
<Shawn> you send a ticket to support
<Shawn> noone charges you
<x9> they do it for free


So yeah, it's free, it's quick, and it could be a great addition ^.^.

Apostropartheid
07-25-2009, 11:25 PM
That'd be pretty cool, actually...

oracleguy
07-25-2009, 11:56 PM
See:

http://www.codingforums.com/showthread.php?t=147526
http://www.codingforums.com/showthread.php?t=141412
http://www.codingforums.com/showthread.php?t=117029

gnomeontherun
07-26-2009, 12:03 AM
So really what we need are scheduled chats.

Apostropartheid
07-26-2009, 12:09 AM
Weekly chats sound cool. I've met a couple of active members and most of them seem worth a conversation. There'll always be members and mods, and we can keep Spooks under check, possibly with the aid of slegehammers.

bazz
07-26-2009, 12:42 AM
I've met a couple of active members and most of them seem worth a conversation.

Do tell! Which one has the split personality? I can only get 0%, 50% or 100% ~ not 'most' ~from what you wrote!! :D

bazz

Apostropartheid
07-26-2009, 01:33 AM
*points at one of you and hopes*

Deacon Frost
07-26-2009, 02:03 AM
So really what we need are scheduled chats.

Well, if we had an irc, with like, a main channel, and then several help channels "php" "javascript" etc, could get pretty populated, I'd bet.

And wouldn't just be scheduled, but generally available all the time :P

Apostropartheid
07-26-2009, 02:14 AM
I don't thinkkk that'd work. It'd require mods constantly, for starters. I was thinking more of a general chat, because, well, if we go chat there'd be no point in the fora, will there?

Deacon Frost
07-26-2009, 02:28 AM
I don't thinkkk that'd work. It'd require mods constantly, for starters. I was thinking more of a general chat, because, well, if we go chat there'd be no point in the fora, will there?

You'd be surprised :P. IRC's work very well, with people who are capable. And generally, bots do most of the work with things like flood prevention, spam protection, etc. Not to mention, IRC hops/op/admins/owners are different than forums, because there are certain users you trust just enough to operate a channel, but don't trust enough to run a forum :P.

And, the point of the forum will still exist. A lot of it can be used to get chat help from several people in a channel at once by simply linking to a thread you just posted. IRC's generally increase activity, as well, because of the interactivity. Lurking in an IRC is easier than lurking on a forum, because you don't really have to click to refresh, and such. So if someone posts a link, a bunch of people in the IRC will click it, and then you'll see a good 2-3 lines of people logged into the forum at once.

They're usually quite the addition :P, and are easy to run.


An IRC is just like a general chat room, but with several more options, and is easier to organize and such. :P.

Apostropartheid
07-26-2009, 03:13 AM
I guess. I would still be hesitant, though. Maybe a trial version based on one of our busier forums would be a good idea, HTML & CSS or PHP would be suitable, kick some of the mods into it. What do you think, WA?

BoldUlysses
07-26-2009, 03:37 AM
I'm down.

oracleguy
07-26-2009, 03:55 AM
Well, if we had an irc, with like, a main channel, and then several help channels "php" "javascript" etc, could get pretty populated, I'd bet.

And wouldn't just be scheduled, but generally available all the time :P


And, the point of the forum will still exist. A lot of it can be used to get chat help from several people in a channel at once by simply linking to a thread you just posted. IRC's generally increase activity, as well, because of the interactivity. Lurking in an IRC is easier than lurking on a forum, because you don't really have to click to refresh, and such. So if someone posts a link, a bunch of people in the IRC will click it, and then you'll see a good 2-3 lines of people logged into the forum at once.

No, as discussed before that would be an entirely BAD idea. Because then people would just stop bothering to post questions and answers on the forums. Then that defeats the whole point of the forum, people couldn't search for questions already asked. Or they might get a lot of posts that don't have any answers because the answers were given in IRC.

The only way chat would work is if there were scheduled chats and perhaps a chosen topic for the session. Otherwise there isn't much of a point when if you want to shoot the breeze you can use the active members lounge.

Deacon Frost
07-26-2009, 04:18 AM
No, as discussed before that would be an entirely BAD idea. Because then people would just stop bothering to post questions and answers on the forums. Then that defeats the whole point of the forum, people couldn't search for questions already asked. Or they might get a lot of posts that don't have any answers because the answers were given in IRC.

The only way chat would work is if there were scheduled chats and perhaps a chosen topic for the session. Otherwise there isn't much of a point when if you want to shoot the breeze you can use the active members lounge.


I fail to see how that would be the case?

For several reasons:

1. A lot of members assist greatly in the way of code. Something as little as a few changes, or as great as completely writing the code for someone... You need somewhere to paste it. It's only logical to paste it in the thread. You could pastebin it, but no real reason to, if you're already linked to the thread. You could offer general advice in the IRC, yes, but most people who are capable would prefer typing out longer answers, and such, on a forum, and just using the irc for tidbits of trouble shooting that really don't matter for archives.

2. You can't get reputation, thanks, or anything like that in the IRC. This, in itself, is reason to post. Which keeps people posting on the forums. A lot of CF doesn't just use the site for help, but rather to help people. And that small bit of appreciation keeps them coming back, or at least it seems like it. Not to mention, it helps those who help become even better in their practices.

3. The forums are still fantastic for searching for help, posting new threads, etc. Just because an IRC exists, doesn't mean the forum would die. Not only this, but I bet the IRC doesn't get more than maybe 50 - 60 active people, and maybe 30 lurkers at max. The forum has 12k active members... The IRC will not triumph over those numbers... It never happens.

Now, the IRC is a good idea because:

1. The forums aren't great for general chatting, to be honest. A lot of learning can take place in an IRC, just by listening to people talk. You pick up the attitude, you get to interact, and such. Something that is, plain and simple, not that easy to achieve on a forum for strict business. You basically learn the personality of different people, and that can help you greatly develop as a programmer.

2. The amount of things possible in the forum is limited based on its inactivity. Don't get me wrong, I love CF, but it really sucks to wait for a long while for a reply, even though it's generally necessary. IRC's are proven to increase activity of forums, through sheer interactiveness.

3. Sometimes, you just want a quick freaking answer and don't want to post a thread -.-. Let's face it, a majority of users do not browse the forums for answers, they post their thread, and read their thread for convenience. Having a quick way to throw a question to a number of people who know what they're talking about without creating a thread, waiting for a reply, etc, is very handy.



<Mike> How do I make something centered in CSS?
// 5 seconds later
<John> margin:0 auto;


Which is quicker than a thread which can take anywhere from 5 to 10 minutes for a simple reply, just waiting for someone to see the thread :P.



They balance themselves out, and it's no question that IRC's do in fact work. A scheduled chat, though useful, isn't a permanent chat which could be even more useful, and present much more opportunity for the CF community :)

gnomeontherun
07-26-2009, 09:58 AM
The reason I think it might work is that I think several of the most active members are online or at least have CF open most of the day. That being said, if the active members don't step up, it will fail to do anything other than a lot of new members saying "HI I need..." and little help given. There will be members who love it and some who loath it, I personally would pop in from time to time but not use it a lot as my time on CF is frequent but brief during any given visit.

Of course it might inspire some other members to be more active on the chat that aren't on the forum because of the different medium, but I imagine it would likely cause lower quality support. When you post to a board, what you say is semi-permanent and others can easily see, so you are less likely to post unless you know what you are talking about. In a chat room, its a limited number of people who can see and it has limited lifespan, so the quality of the information is not as important.

Also, the biggest negative to this I see is that all advice and discussion will be lost after each session. So it really only would be for fun or simple questions that take less than 2 sentences to answer. Yes you can link to a post, but there could be a lot of people who come in thinking this is like real live tech support too.

Any reason why Deacon can't just make a test channel, maybe at a given time span, to test and post a message somewhere that regular users should find it easy? I like the idea of it just to see what the members may or may not do with it.

ShawnPrend
07-26-2009, 11:28 AM
The reason I think it might work is that I think several of the most active members are online or at least have CF open most of the day. That being said, if the active members don't step up, it will fail to do anything other than a lot of new members saying "HI I need..." and little help given. There will be members who love it and some who loath it, I personally would pop in from time to time but not use it a lot as my time on CF is frequent but brief during any given visit.

Of course it might inspire some other members to be more active on the chat that aren't on the forum because of the different medium, but I imagine it would likely cause lower quality support. When you post to a board, what you say is semi-permanent and others can easily see, so you are less likely to post unless you know what you are talking about. In a chat room, its a limited number of people who can see and it has limited lifespan, so the quality of the information is not as important.

Also, the biggest negative to this I see is that all advice and discussion will be lost after each session. So it really only would be for fun or simple questions that take less than 2 sentences to answer. Yes you can link to a post, but there could be a lot of people who come in thinking this is like real live tech support too.

Any reason why Deacon can't just make a test channel, maybe at a given time span, to test and post a message somewhere that regular users should find it easy? I like the idea of it just to see what the members may or may not do with it.

Most clients support loggings if you desire to enable it.

I've seen a lot of forums open an IRC channel and never have I seen an IRC channel take activity from a forum.

Deacon Frost
07-26-2009, 12:01 PM
Hi Shawn :).

I've created a simple channel on Shawn's IRC. Mind you, this isn't the complete functionality, and it's not as accurate as actually doing a full-out trial (with our own DNS, announcing it, etc) but it's something:

http://mibbit.com/chat/

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/3899/cfconnectirc.jpg

When you get to the website, click 'Server' Put in "irc.ghostsnet.com". Put in your nick, and the channel is "#CF".

Ghost is the bot, currently. Shawn, and I should be lurking in there. Maybe a few others :P.

If you would like to download a full IRC client:

http://mirc.com/

It comes with much better features than Mibbit, doesn't require the use of a web browser, and minimizes to the status icons. (also has a built in scripting language which runs largely off of PHP :P)

If you need any other bit of help, like the idea, etc, just ask :). I'll be on it quite a bit ^.^.

Apostropartheid
07-26-2009, 04:23 PM
Possibly, but I still like the idea of doing a general chat first. Does an announcement seem in order to anyone? That's the only way I can see visitors going to it, because at the moment, it's dead.

ShawnPrend
07-26-2009, 08:09 PM
Possibly, but I still like the idea of doing a general chat first. Does an announcement seem in order to anyone? That's the only way I can see visitors going to it, because at the moment, it's dead.

Yeah, I think an announcement would be great.

I run the IRC server, just incase anyone is wondering.

If you have any questions about IRC, or need help doing something in the #CF channel please don't hesitate to message me on IRC (nick: Shawn)

Theres probably a lot of people new to IRC so it may take a little before it's an active channel

ohgod
07-27-2009, 03:17 PM
i envision thousands of poorly phrased and even more poorly spelled demands for "how 2 make code like google male except with mafia gamez and make money"

>.<

even for the quick help (which hey, who doesn't like quick answers?) you lose the ability for the next guy to just search the forum.

that said, if someone wants to volunteer to help take a look at a poster's problem in real time it would be handy to have it available i suppose.



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