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View Full Version : non-web discussion



ghell
03-19-2009, 05:30 PM
This has probably been discussed before but as I could not find anything on it, I'm posting it now.

This board has a heavy emphasis on web-related technologies such as HTML, CSS, JavaScript, php, etc and I originally found it years ago from javascriptkit. There seems to be very little of the board devoted to anything outside of this area, which seems strange when so much of the industry uses C++, C#, Java (OK I know there's a Java forum but its pretty much just because of JSP) and other languages such as Python.

It just seems strange that there's a Ruby on Rails forum but no C/C++ forum and that "Computer Programming" is full of so many languages that it is near essential to post which language you are using in the subject line.

Millenia
03-19-2009, 06:38 PM
Even if the Java forum mainly gets filled with JSP problems, that's still the place for Java threads. Posting your thread in there will still get an answer from someone who knows that they are talking about.

Plus, I'm just wondering what's wrong with posting C and C++ questions in the "Computer Programming" forum. "Talk about computer programming such as C/C++, Assembly, COBOL, Pascal etc." (Python has it's own dedicated sub-forum, that doesn't get many posts)
As long as you state what language you are using then I think the current system works fine.

Like you said, you found this forum from Javascriptkit, so obviously most of the forum is going to be web-related. Most people come here to ask and discuss web-related languages. I can see where you are coming from, but the Computer Programming forum doesn't get near as many threads or posts as the web-related forums, so I think everything works fine for now. If there were more Computer Programming threads then I could see the need for some more; but not yet at least.

ghell
03-19-2009, 06:46 PM
Plus, I'm just wondering what's wrong with posting C and C++ questions in the "Computer Programming" forum. "Talk about computer programming such as C/C++, Assembly, COBOL, Pascal etc." (Python has it's own dedicated sub-forum, that doesn't get many posts)
As long as you state what language you are using then I think the current system works fine.

If you are going by that theory, you may as well have the whole "Client side development" category merged into 1 forum, the whole "Server side development" in another etc and just write your language in the subject there too. Both of these have been made into categories with forums for individual languages but for non-web languages, which probably covers a much larger spectrum, they have a single forum :confused:

It's a self fulfilling prophecy if the almost whole board is about web-based issues that almost every post will be about them. It is called coding forums not web coding forums, after all.

BoldUlysses
03-19-2009, 06:56 PM
Both of these have been made into categories with forums for individual languages but for non-web languages, which probably covers a much larger spectrum, they have a single forum.

One word: Volume. They languages that have their own subforums generate enough volume to justify being a separate forum. The non-web-related language don't (yet).

It's the whole question of whether to expand forum categories in anticipation of need, or as the need arises. I would argue the latter. I think the RoR and Python subforums just go to show that just because there is a category for something doesn't mean it will be frequented, and from anecdotal experience every other forum I've been a part of works that way too.

ghell
03-19-2009, 07:07 PM
One word: Volume. They languages that have their own subforums generate enough volume to justify being a separate forum. The non-web-related language don't (yet).

As I just said, it's a self fulfilling prophecy.


It's the whole question of whether to expand forum categories in anticipation of need, or as the need arises. I would argue the latter. I think the RoR and Python subforums just go to show that just because there is a category for something doesn't mean it will be frequented, and from anecdotal experience every other forum I've been a part of works that way too.

I don't know anyone at all who actually uses Ruby, which probably explains why it is almost empty as a forum. It just adds to my point that a minor language that has something to do with the web (Ruby on Rails) gets its own forum while a major language that doesn't have anything to do with the web (C/C++) gets relegated to one forum with every other language in a similar position. I would bet that there have been at least 100 times more posts on C++ alone than Ruby in the life of this board.

Python is only listed as a subforum of "Other server side languages/ issues", which is a small forum in itself and is still web oriented with "server side" in its parent forum. I hadn't even noticed it there with such a small link and if people don't notice it, they won't post there. I would also say that Python is used mainly for other uses than for the web (in CGI or as a http server).

BoldUlysses
03-19-2009, 07:14 PM
I don't know anyone at all who actually uses Ruby, which probably explains why it is almost empty as a forum.

It's not a question of how many people use it, it's a question of how many people who use it post their questions here. There are many dedicated RoR and Python forums that are extremely active.


a major language that doesn't have anything to do with the web (C/C++) gets relegated to one forum with every other language in a similar position.

Major language or not, the mods evidently feel it hasn't yet generated enough volume to justify its own subforum... They could, as you suggest, add the subforum to "advertise" and attract non-web-based language posters, and while I'm sure there are cases when that's worked, as stated above, it definitely seems to be the exception rather than the rule.

Millenia
03-19-2009, 07:44 PM
If you are going by that theory, you may as well have the whole "Client side development" category merged into 1 forum, the whole "Server side development" in another etc and just write your language in the subject there too. Both of these have been made into categories with forums for individual languages but for non-web languages, which probably covers a much larger spectrum, they have a single forum :confused:

It's a self fulfilling prophecy if the almost whole board is about web-based issues that almost every post will be about them. It is called coding forums not web coding forums, after all.

I can clearly see where you are coming from, and I understand what you are trying to say; but much much more people visit CF for web based issues. Lots of people use the Client and Server side development forums because that's what audience this website attracts. Take a look at these:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=web+development+forums&btnG=Search&meta=
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=C%2B%2B+forums&btnG=Search

For which search result is Codingforums the higher result?
Evidently the Computer Programming forum hardly gets any posts compared to the web development side.

ghell
03-19-2009, 08:06 PM
But of course if there is no C++ forum, this forum will get a low rank for "C++ forum". If there are 14 top level forums for web development plus more subforums but less than 1 forum (because other languages share it) for C++, you expect there to be a lot more incoming posts about web development.

It doesn't take a lot of digging to notice that "Computer Programming" is made up mostly of C++ and .net so I think at least those deserve their own proper forums. As subforums of Computer Programming I wouldn't expect them to get many more hits but if it were something like "Computer Programming" as a category, C/C++ as one forum, .net (C#, VB.net, J#, maybe Managed C++) as one forum and "Other languages" as a forum it would attract more non-web posts and those 3 forums would probably be used roughly evenly.

The way I see it, most development is split into web and non-web and then web is further split into server and client, so I think that non-web is a perfectly valid category and is at least worth more than a single measly forum without even any subforums.

oracleguy
03-20-2009, 02:16 AM
I totally get where you are coming from gshell, however other than C, C++ and .net questions, there really aren't that many threads on any other topic in the computer programming forum. There is the occasional assembly one and of course the general computer programming ones. If there was going to be a sub forum in computer programming, a C and C++ forum and a .NET forum would be the way to do it.

I think what Millenia is getting at is that CF's emphasis has always been on web development, that is why there is just one computer programming forum.

Adding a new forum is a tough decision because if there really isn't a need due to volume, it is a gamble as to if it will catch on or not. I suppose it wouldn't hurt to try it out and if it doesn't catch on, the threads would just be merged into the parent forum. But of course the decision is up to WA.

VIPStephan
03-20-2009, 12:28 PM
My opinion also is that one can never please everybody and you don’t even have to try to please everybody. In any field (be it a traditional craft, a car dealer, software programming, or web development) you can guarantee for the highest quality if you concentrate on your core competence and don’t try to do everything just to please everybody.

Of course you’ll not get many computer programmers that look for C++ issues here but do you have to? There are specialized and active forums for these languages, this site is mostly for web related technologies, so… what else can I say?
In a graphic design forum you usually also have a section for HTML/CSS but since it’s specialized in graphic design most people won’t look for HTML/CSS solutions there and rather go here (or wherever), and hence, these sections there are not as active. So, where’s the problem?



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