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View Full Version : Google has no Doctype :S



BabyJack
04-21-2008, 02:33 PM
When I was reading through googles source, I noticed they don't have a doctype:


<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"><title>Google</title><style>body,td,a,p,.h{font-family:arial,sans-serif}.h{font-size:20px}.h{color:#3366cc}.q{color:#00c}.ts td{padding:0}.ts{border-collapse:collapse}.lnc:link,.lnc:visited{color:#00c}.pgtab,.pgtab:hover,.pgtabselected,.pgtabside{te xt-align:center;text-decoration:none;color:#00c;display:block;height:27px;float:left;overflow:hidden;background:url(/intl/ja/images/productlinktabs.png) no-repeat;padding-top:8px}.pgtab{width:130px;background-position:-274px 0}.pgtab:hover{width:130px;background-position:-144px 0}.pgtabselected{width:144px}.pgtabside{width:3px;background-position:-404px 0}.ptr{cursor:pointer;cursor:hand}.iconl{background:url() no-repeat;overflow:hidden;height:px;width:px}#gbar{float:left;height:22px;padding-left:2px}.gbh,.gb2 div{border-top:1px solid #c9d7f1;font-size:0;height:0}.g...

Hehe :)

davidc2
04-21-2008, 04:27 PM
In google, doctype has you.

Sman5109
04-23-2008, 06:24 AM
When I was reading through googles source, I noticed they don't have a doctype:


<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"><title>Google</title><style>body,td,a,p,.h{font-family:arial,sans-serif}.h{font-size:20px}.h{color:#3366cc}.q{color:#00c}.ts td{padding:0}.ts{border-collapse:collapse}.lnc:link,.lnc:visited{color:#00c}.pgtab,.pgtab:hover,.pgtabselected,.pgtabside{te xt-align:center;text-decoration:none;color:#00c;display:block;height:27px;float:left;overflow:hidden;background:url(/intl/ja/images/productlinktabs.png) no-repeat;padding-top:8px}.pgtab{width:130px;background-position:-274px 0}.pgtab:hover{width:130px;background-position:-144px 0}.pgtabselected{width:144px}.pgtabside{width:3px;background-position:-404px 0}.ptr{cursor:pointer;cursor:hand}.iconl{background:url() no-repeat;overflow:hidden;height:px;width:px}#gbar{float:left;height:22px;padding-left:2px}.gbh,.gb2 div{border-top:1px solid #c9d7f1;font-size:0;height:0}.g...Hehe :)
That is because that page gets so many hits that google only uses the code that it needed. Anything else would use too much bandwidth and google would explode!

Andrew Johnson
04-23-2008, 10:25 PM
That is because that page gets so many hits that google only uses the code that it needed. Anything else would use too much bandwidth and google would explode!

Bandwidth definitely isn't the reason...

o0O0o.o0O0o
04-24-2008, 12:38 AM
May be we are not able to see some portion (guess)


Sidenote for Andrew Johnson: what happend , why you have red box;)

Andrew Johnson
04-24-2008, 03:08 PM
When people say stupid things I call them stupid, apparently it's frowned upon here :/

liorean
04-24-2008, 05:19 PM
When people say stupid things I call them stupid, apparently it's frowned upon here :/Reputation is simply given by users for posts, for whatever reasons. It has no relation to any "official" stance. Staff members use infractions if they consider your post flaming or potentially objectionable and not reputation. Reputation comes from other plain users. So if your reputation is bad, that signals only that other users don't like your posts for whatever reason.

Andrew Johnson
04-24-2008, 06:26 PM
I get infractions for doing what I just said I do...

TheShaner
04-24-2008, 07:09 PM
I get infractions for doing what I just said I do...
He's a rebel. That's how he gets all the female coders. They like them forum bad boys :cool:

-Shane

Brandoe85
04-24-2008, 07:24 PM
Hey doctor - I have this problem, I keep getting headaches...what could it be?
Are you stupid? *insert some medical terminology here*

liorean
04-24-2008, 07:38 PM
I get infractions for doing what I just said I do...Yes, but that has nothing to do with your reputation being in the reds. Infractions are from staff for broken rules. Reputation is from users for their opinions on your posts.

oesxyl
04-24-2008, 08:14 PM
When people say stupid things I call them stupid, apparently it's frowned upon here :/
if they are stupid and tell them that they don't understand because is obvious are stupid and if are not stupid and tell them they are is not true, so IMO is wrong to say about somebody that is stupid.
In my opinion your posts are agresive, I think that is the real reason. Try to read again your posts from last time.
It's pity, you prove that you could help people.

regards

Andrew Johnson
04-24-2008, 11:56 PM
I do help people, its when I do and people aren't willing to put up half the effort for their code that I do that I get pissed.

I'm not here to coddle I'm here to write code.

oesxyl
04-25-2008, 12:58 AM
I do help people, its when I do and people aren't willing to put up half the effort for their code that I do that I get pissed.

I'm not here to coddle I'm here to write code.
maybe I'm wrong but is not our responsability to change people behavior, :)
we could try but they decide what to do with their lifes.

regards

Andrew Johnson
04-25-2008, 05:12 AM
I don't know how that relates to anything... but okay.

o0O0o.o0O0o
04-25-2008, 08:54 AM
Reputation is from users for their opinions on your posts.

The thing is there is no way to find out , who has given you bad reputation . According my red Box experience , Andrew has >= -10 points . Its only possible when person with high Reputation gave him - ve reputation , most probably the person who gave him infraction and

normal users mostly don't have that reputation to de reputate him .

There is some relation between infraction and reputation:cool:

oesxyl
04-25-2008, 02:25 PM
I do help people, its when I do and people aren't willing to put up half the effort for their code that I do that I get pissed.

I'm not here to coddle I'm here to write code.
that means you feel responsable and being agresive you want to change their behavior, isn't it?


I don't know how that relates to anything... but okay.
:)


The thing is there is no way to find out , who has given you bad reputation . According my red Box experience , Andrew has >= -10 points . Its only possible when person with high Reputation gave him - ve reputation , most probably the person who gave him infraction and

normal users mostly don't have that reputation to de reputate him .

There is some relation between infraction and reputation:cool:
like usual you change the view point in the oposite direction, :)
I don't think that is important who and why somebody give him bad rep, when I get some I look to see if was something wrong, from my point of view, in the answer, if is not, I step over. I do same thing with pos rep to improve my answer. In my opinion is not a rule that rep points really mean something, some people give bad rep because are irritated and don't understand how you answer help them, is their right. Similar thing with positive rep, when somebody think that you help him more if "motivate" you, but unfortunately you can help more then you can, :).
About hidding when give bad rep, I don't know if is true or not, maybe the sistem is wrong, and I think is bad, people must be responsable for their opinion and tolerant with other people opinion.

regards

Andrew Johnson
04-25-2008, 04:48 PM
oesxyl just because I dislike people doesn't mean I want to or am actively trying to change them - you may want to invest in Webster's dictionary.

As far as everything else goes, this forum is heading in the direction that most web development websites go which is coddling newcomers.

For example the other day in site review someone posted a god awful website with no content. I said something like; the content is lacking, the presentation sucks and it doesn't validate. Now if you were a web developer you would recognize these are all reasons that a potential visitor won't want to come to/stay on your website (well maybe not so much the validate code thing, but the other 2 for sure). Suddenly this makes me the bad guy because instead of doing his job for him and re-writing the ****ty code he's created I am telling what needs fixing. Is this wrong? Apparently so.

Fumigator
04-25-2008, 07:05 PM
The difference is the very definition of tact.

If by "coddle" you mean encourage noobs to do a better job and point out one or two things to work on rather than spit upon their ***ty code, then yeah I guess I'm a coddler.

ANyways did yous guys know that Google has no doctype?!?! :eek: :eek: :eek:

TheShaner
04-25-2008, 07:12 PM
To be honest, if you don't like people and can't handle "stupidity", you probably shouldn't be helping people on a public forum like this, haha. I mean that in no disrespect of course. I know you're good at what you do, but some people are teachers and others are not. You're going to find extremely inexperienced people here side-by-side with professional coders and helping here means you have to be prepared to deal with both types and all the in-betweens. No one should be coddled, but everyone should be respected regardless of their sometimes inane posts :)

-Shane

NancyJ
04-26-2008, 12:06 AM
You don't have to answer them respectfully, you don't have to answer them at all. No-one is forcing you, if you don't think someone's post is worthy of a reasonable, polite answer then don't post. Being rude and snarky just makes you look like an *** and gives you a bad rep.

The other problem of course is that no-one seems to give +reps since the 'thank' button came in - its a lot more obvious.

Andrew Johnson
04-26-2008, 01:10 AM
I'm not here for rep and I don't care if I have a red box next to my name bud

Brandoe85
04-26-2008, 07:41 PM
I just emailed Google and told them to get a doctype or their site won't validate and nobody will use it anymore.

It's a very serious matter and I believe I just took care of it. You're welcome www

BabyJack
04-27-2008, 02:46 PM
To be honest, I don't use google. I don't find it reliable.
Even I have a doctype and im new to this web design and coding stuff :)

PS: They must have discarded your email as they still havn't got a doctype.
PSS: They actually have 63 errors: http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http&#37;3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&charset=%28detect+automatically%29&doctype=Inline&group=0

Aradon
04-27-2008, 06:27 PM
I just emailed Google and told them to get a doctype or their site won't validate and nobody will use it anymore.

It's a very serious matter and I believe I just took care of it. You're welcome www


Hah, stop using Google. That's funny.

I'm pretty sure the average user doesn't care about doctype or site validation. Just that it looks good and does it's job. And as long as browsers continue to show sites with non-standard validation or no doctype in a meaningful way, then there is no reason to even attempt to create a "valid" site.

Andrew Johnson
04-27-2008, 08:02 PM
I'm pretty sure the average user doesn't care about doctype or site validation. Just that it looks good and does it's job. And as long as browsers continue to show sites with non-standard validation or no doctype in a meaningful way, then there is no reason to even attempt to create a "valid" site.

STUPID PARAGRAPH ALERT

FWDrew
04-28-2008, 01:13 AM
And as long as browsers continue to show sites with non-standard validation or no doctype in a meaningful way, then there is no reason to even attempt to create a "valid" site.

Putting aside my fear of getting sucked into a giant debate over google, I must say I really am baffled you feel there is no reason to even attempt to create a valid site, coming from a moderator on a coding forum, its quite surprising to read.

I would encourage all members, especially new ones which frequent often, to begin their experience in the "coding world" by validating often and early.

So, I must respectfully disagree. I could think of quite a few reasons to make sure your site validates (or at least comes close) and I am sure you could too ;)

Drew

Aradon
04-28-2008, 03:22 AM
I'm not stating, per say, that validation isn't noble. But until you get browsers to only follow the valid standards, then it is going to be hard for people (I say normal people aka, non-web designers) to want to change their websites over, or even for some web designers that already have a working product such as google.

I welcome validation with open arms, but until the browsers take a firm stance on it, it wont ever be universally accepted.

o0O0o.o0O0o
04-28-2008, 04:29 AM
what does doctype means ?

Aradon
04-28-2008, 05:19 AM
Some sources for this discussion then (for oooo)

Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Document_Type_Declaration)
w3 tag description (http://www.w3schools.com/tags/tag_DOCTYPE.asp)
Interesting (http://www.alistapart.com/articles/doctype/) article on how doctype works in some browsers

Oddly enough I just read through that and learned a lot about the importance of the DOCTYPE including how the browsers go into a different mode when the doctype isn't present.

Goes to show that I'm not a web guy. Which may be why none of the sites I've written has had a correct DOCTYPE :)

Brandoe85
04-28-2008, 05:27 AM
Some sources for this discussion then (for oooo)

Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Document_Type_Declaration)
w3 tag description (http://www.w3schools.com/tags/tag_DOCTYPE.asp)
Interesting (http://www.alistapart.com/articles/doctype/) article on how doctype works in some browsers

Oddly enough I just read through that and learned a lot about the importance of the DOCTYPE including how the browsers go into a different mode when the doctype isn't present.

Goes to show that I'm not a web guy. Which may be why none of the sites I've written has had a correct DOCTYPE :)
Don't worry, neither does google ;)


Thanks in advance.

o0O0o.o0O0o
04-28-2008, 06:44 AM
I am not using XML so , it means i don't have to use Doctype ?

I wonder if somone can post this question on anyforum

o0O0o.o0O0o Website has no Doctype :D

BabyJack
04-28-2008, 05:02 PM
Everysite needs a doctype. As simple as that :)

VIPStephan
04-28-2008, 05:31 PM
I am not using XML so , it means i don't have to use Doctype ?

I wonder if somone can post this question on anyforum

If you read the provided sources throughly, including the sticky about doctypes in the HTML/CSS forum youíll notice that a doctype isnít solely related to XML. As Wifee said every website needs a doctype. Read the articles, do a search. Itís so simple, youíve got the entire internet in front of you. You donít want me to turn into Andrew Johnson, do you?

BabyJack
04-28-2008, 05:37 PM
You don’t want me to turn into Andrew Johnson, do you?
Haha! :)

o0O0o.o0O0o
04-29-2008, 03:57 AM
I never took doc type very seriously as long as my site was working. But now i will start looking into it .


You donít want me to turn into Andrew Johnson, do you?

I like your big tummy ;) so stay as you are .

BabyJack
04-29-2008, 07:13 AM
Let's have a competition! The first person to persuade Google getting a doctype wins!


PS: There is 1 lousy graphic up for grabs. Saying 'I made Google get a Document Type!'

o0O0o.o0O0o
04-29-2008, 08:19 AM
Let's have a competition! The first person to persuade Google getting a doctype wins!


PS: There is 1 lousy graphic up for grabs. Saying 'I made Google get a Document Type!'


First persuade me to use Doctype and then i will you a two T-shirts saying



'I made o0O0o.o0O0o get a Document Type!'

one for you nd other for your husbandd:D

Kor
04-29-2008, 02:23 PM
A Doctype is useful from another point of view. Under a Doctype, browsers interpret web pages in standard mode (well... closer to the standards, anyway). Without a Doctype, browsers act in quirks mode, that means they will approximate some default behaviors (CSS, javascript, even HTML) upon their creators' imagination (I reckon :rolleyes:).

BabyJack
04-29-2008, 04:27 PM
one for you nd other for your husbandd
1. Im a man o.o
2. I have a girlfriend.

o0O0o.o0O0o
04-30-2008, 12:32 AM
1. Im a man o.o
2. I have a girlfriend.

was just guessing from your username;)

BabyJack
04-30-2008, 07:03 AM
lol :)

BabyJack
05-03-2008, 10:06 AM
I wonder what happened to the discussion of the Doctypeless Google?

abduraooft
05-03-2008, 04:05 PM
I wonder what happened to the discussion of the Doctypeless Google? what else could happen!??! The originator of this thread has changed the gender (of username) and a main contributor of this thread has got banned for some reason :rolleyes:

BabyJack
05-03-2008, 04:19 PM
:) I suppose so, but what I meant was that this topic has gone off-topic! :D

abduraooft
05-03-2008, 04:23 PM
:) I suppose so, but what I meant was that this topic has gone off-topic! :D
The real reason is, this topic has been discussed many times here before. But I couldn't just search and show you them all.

BabyJack
05-03-2008, 04:25 PM
Has it? I thought it was origional!

binaryWeapon
05-03-2008, 11:35 PM
The originator of this thread has changed the gender (of username)

You can change your username?

BabyJack
05-04-2008, 07:57 AM
Yes, See WA

BabyJack
05-04-2008, 10:05 AM
Who thinks google should change their layout?
It's getting annoying now, for over 5 years they have not changed their layout.

Kor
05-04-2008, 10:18 AM
It's getting annoying now, for over 5 years I have not change my wife, yet :D

BabyJack
05-04-2008, 10:26 AM
:o Lol

binaryWeapon
05-04-2008, 04:21 PM
Well, google has changed the google video layout. Although I must say, I kinda preferred the old one.

BabyJack
05-04-2008, 04:34 PM
I meant the homepage ;)

idalatob
05-04-2008, 05:09 PM
Google sucks:

Check out the search engine I made (and it has a doctype):
http://www.fiddlefax.co.za/search.php

BabyJack
05-04-2008, 05:12 PM
Mabeys Style it and search for other sites? :P

o0O0o.o0O0o
05-05-2008, 05:24 AM
There is nothing much to change on Google Homepage except the text Box where we enter search item ;)


Abdurasoft: To which country does God belongs to?

abduraooft
05-05-2008, 08:16 AM
Abdurasoft: To which country does God belongs to?
Please... leave me alone....;)
PS: I think, a small change is also required for my username :rolleyes:

o0O0o.o0O0o
05-05-2008, 08:23 AM
Please... leave me alone....;)
PS: I think, a small change is also required for my username :rolleyes:

I am ready to pay the half rent!!
P.S : I think you forgot to put S inplace of First O . or you love Os like me:D

BabyJack
05-05-2008, 08:36 AM
I can tell... By the way, how do you remember your username???

abduraooft
05-05-2008, 08:44 AM
When I was reading through googles source, I noticed they don't have a doctype:


either for BabyJack (http://www.pimpmysearch.com/home.html?gname=BabyJack) :D

BabyJack
05-05-2008, 08:47 AM
Yey! My own search! :D

I'm doctypeless*


*Geek humour for Speechless.


BabyJack


PS: This is starting to get a popular thread

o0O0o.o0O0o
05-05-2008, 10:08 AM
I can tell... By the way, how do you remember your username???

I use roboform always ,so no needto remember anything!!
so wifee has become Baby now;) and next thing will be dady and then u will complete a happy family :D

abduraooft
05-05-2008, 10:17 AM
so wifee has become Baby now;) and next thing will be dady and then u will complete a happy family :D
ROFL :D

BabyJack
05-05-2008, 10:30 AM
Yey go me! :D
PMSL

o0O0o.o0O0o
05-05-2008, 10:48 AM
ROFL

PMSL
Had to search internet for these two terms :D

BabyJack
05-05-2008, 11:16 AM
Lol ;)

abduraooft
05-05-2008, 11:41 AM
But, what's PMSL ?

BabyJack
05-05-2008, 11:46 AM
Peeing My Self Laughing

Aradon
05-05-2008, 12:42 PM
Peeing My Self Laughing

...ewww

BabyJack
05-05-2008, 12:46 PM
But obviously, not really.

o0O0o.o0O0o
05-05-2008, 01:18 PM
Abduraooft: main contributor of this thread has got banned for some reason


who was banned?



Well, this peculiar acronym expression is very much a United Kingdom expression. It stands for "P*ssing myself laughing".

BabyJack
05-05-2008, 01:23 PM
1. Andrew Johnson got banned
2. I use PMSL in a polite way :)

o0O0o.o0O0o
05-05-2008, 01:46 PM
1. Andrew Johnson got banned
2. I use PMSL in a polite way :)

I really feel pity for him . he was the good man with good soul . May his soul rest in peace for the time he gets banned.

BabyJack
05-05-2008, 01:52 PM
<(o.o)>

abduraooft
05-05-2008, 02:54 PM
Sidenote for Andrew Johnson: what happend , why you have red box;)
.
.
.
who was banned?
.
.
.
.
I really feel pity for him . he was the good man with good soul . May his soul rest in peace for the time he gets banned.


playing extra innocent :rolleyes:

BabyJack
05-05-2008, 03:08 PM
Yeah ;)

BabyJack
05-05-2008, 03:25 PM
Does anyone use Google? I think it's a waste of time because they havn't even taken the time to validate their site. They have 63 errors! I have NONE.

abduraooft
05-05-2008, 03:45 PM
It's really a waste of time to validate Google's website and complain it here. :)

BabyJack
05-05-2008, 03:57 PM
It isn't, it just shows they cannot be bothered.

Aradon
05-05-2008, 05:01 PM
Does anyone use Google? I think it's a waste of time because they havn't even taken the time to validate their site. They have 63 errors! I have NONE.

I use google on a daily basis.

idalatob
05-05-2008, 05:30 PM
google doesn't need a doctype. they own the web.

BabyJack
05-05-2008, 05:31 PM
Google do need a doctype!
Servers run the web!

I'm going to start my own search engine with a better design and a doctype :P

o0O0o.o0O0o
05-06-2008, 01:32 AM
playing extra innocent :rolleyes:

I really feel bad when someone is banned , unless and untill he was going beyond the control . I don't know what happened with him and whats the actual reason of banning him . But his intentions were only to help people , altough the way he thought was right or wrong , i don't know .


Google do need a doctype!

Google needs doctype or not , its their problem . We can't do anything about it. Tomorrow you will say Google need to use PHP :) Wonder how many of posts in this thread actually is related to that

binaryWeapon
05-06-2008, 02:16 AM
Does anyone use Google? I think it's a waste of time because they havn't even taken the time to validate their site. They have 63 errors! I have NONE.
I think google isn't useless just because they don't validate their code. An old english teacher way back from highschool once told the class,
Once you all are best-selling novelists, then you can start your sentences with 'because'. The point she was trying to make was that once your the best in your class, you don't need to follow the rules as strictly as anyone else. It doesn't matter how strictly google follows the w3 regulations, they will still get millions of unique visitors daily (most of whom don't even know what a doctype is). For a private freelancer, you want your site to be pristine and perfect in every way and form, especially validation. For a corporate site with 19,156 employees with US$25.335 billion (2007) total assets (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google), its a little different.

oesxyl
05-06-2008, 02:41 AM
I think google isn't useless just because they don't validate their code. An old english teacher way back from highschool once told the class, The point she was trying to make was that once your the best in your class, you don't need to follow the rules as strictly as anyone else. It doesn't matter how strictly google follows the w3 regulations, they will still get millions of unique visitors daily (most of whom don't even know what a doctype is). For a private freelancer, you want your site to be pristine and perfect in every way and form, especially validation. For a corporate site with 19,156 employees with US$25.335 billion (2007) total assets (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google), its a little different.
in other words you want to say that they have arrogance to don't care about rules?
yes, I agree, :)

I think that is more easy for a big corporation like google to follow standards then a one site designer but they must forget about "who care, it work".

I also think that teacher from your example said about being nonconformist not about breaking the rules, there are different things.

regards

BabyJack
05-06-2008, 07:05 AM
:) Still think they should get a DTD.

o0O0o.o0O0o
05-06-2008, 07:39 AM
I don't know Goggle will get DTD or not , but i am sure you will get Yellow Card for this :)

BabyJack
05-06-2008, 05:03 PM
Yewah? Whats a yellow card? Some sort of Forum thing, or a Football type one?

o0O0o.o0O0o
05-07-2008, 02:29 AM
Yewah? Whats a yellow card? Some sort of Forum thing, or a Football type one?

Yellow card is special reception which Spookster likes to give to persons if they insist google too much , to change thier Doctype. Spookster is Google's Unofficial representative :D

BabyJack
05-07-2008, 07:37 AM
Oh dear... *rolls eyes* :D

BabyJack
05-23-2008, 02:42 PM
I have made a new thread to discuss the Google Web Standards



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