...

View Full Version : is it semantically sensible to put quotation marks inside quotations



brothercake
01-22-2003, 04:43 PM
I mean like <q>&quot;here is a quotation&quot;</q>

Visually it looks nicer, but maybe it's not quite right - because the <q> already implies the quotation marks. Maybe something like

<i>&quot;</i><q>here is a quotation</q><i>&quot;</i>

would be better - visually the same, but makes more sense semantically ..

Any thoughts on this, or HTML semantics generally?

cg9com
01-22-2003, 05:18 PM
visually, <q> means nothing, i say place the quotation marks inside the tag, i would only use the tag for CSS purposes.
i dont think " would matter, although its somewhat redundant

Catman
01-22-2003, 06:51 PM
Or you could define a style for the <q> tag:

q { quotes: '"' '"' "'" "'"; }

cg9com
01-22-2003, 09:30 PM
oh yea i forgot about that one
it supports before and after pseudo's so you could say ....
this is all very new i believe

q:before {content:open-quote;}
q:after {content:close-quote;}

jkd
01-22-2003, 11:34 PM
Originally posted by cg9com
oh yea i forgot about that one
it supports before and after pseudo's so you could say ....
this is all very new i believe

q:before {content:open-quote;}
q:after {content:close-quote;}

Not any newer than the rest of CSS2.

brothercake
01-23-2003, 01:24 AM
well what I have is q styled the same as italics, so its visually the same but semantically different

.. but Lynx (and so I'm guessing others) automatically parses <q> elements and create quotation marks - end result is two pairs either end!

But there's some interesting answers here -

q { quotes: '"' '"' "'" "'"; }
q:before {content:open-quote;}
q:after {content:close-quote;}

I've never heard of "quotes" or "content" as properties either - what's kind of parameters do they tale ?

I've never heard of pseduo-classes either (god I feel like there's much of this stuff I don't know about ... this is what happens when you spend 2 years maintaing a commercial API at the expense of the rest of your life ... )

I shall have to investigate all this; thanks for the leads :thumbsup:

cg9com
01-23-2003, 01:52 AM
content:text|url(...)|open-quote|close-quote|

i think thats all of them, before and after are the only pseudos in the <q> i believe ...

ronaldb66
01-23-2003, 02:45 PM
According to the W3C HTML 4.01 Recommendation (http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/),

Visual user agents must ensure that the content of the Q element is rendered with delimiting quotation marks. Authors should not put quotation marks at the beginning and end of the content of a Q element.
see Quotations: The BLOCKQUOTE and Q elements (http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/text.html#edef-Q).
It says UAs should render quotes, which doesn't mean that they actually do. Sounds like another great opportunity for browser hacks... :rolleyes:

brothercake
01-23-2003, 04:03 PM
Originally posted by ronaldb66
Sounds like another great opportunity for browser hacks... :rolleyes:

Oh wonderful ... just what I want! I think some testing is in order - providing the majority of browsers don't already add the markes, then the pseudo class thing will work inside @media groups (to block out ns4). otherwise I'll just leave it ...

brothercake
01-23-2003, 04:24 PM
hmm ... opera7 and mozilla add the marks automatically ... but ie6 doesn't ... and it doesn't seem to support the pseudo-class either ... why am I not surprised by this ...

BrainJar
01-23-2003, 07:55 PM
I believe the intention of the Q tag was to provide a language-independent way of rendering quotations. For example, in English you can use the " character (or alternatively, the open and close quote characters shaped kind of like commas) while French uses guillemets (&#171; and &#187; ) and German uses high and low quote characters (“ and „ ).

cg9com
01-24-2003, 01:36 AM
Originally posted by brothercake
hmm ... opera7 and mozilla add the marks automatically ... but ie6 doesn't ... and it doesn't seem to support the pseudo-class either ... why am I not surprised by this ...

because its IE and they take longer than everyone else.
theres alot of things i would do, but never could because IE doesnt support it, and lets face it, if IE doesnt support it, over half of internet users wont see it and/or get errors

brothercake
01-27-2003, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by BrainJar
I believe the intention of the Q tag was to provide a language-independent way of rendering quotations ...

Yeah that makes a lot of sense; clearly the right thing to do then is not put marks inside the Q, and just don't worry that IE doesn't render it correctly - the italics + context will be enough that it's obvious what it is.



EZ Archive Ads Plugin for vBulletin Copyright 2006 Computer Help Forum