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View Full Version : What's everyone's favorite 2d/3d programs and why?



nickbarresi
01-21-2003, 01:05 PM
Just thought it may help if people knew everyone's opinions/experiences.

Me favorites:

2D: Macromedia Fireworks MX, because it's a lot cheaper than Photoshop, and IMO has a better exporter for the web;) Has a few bugs, but so does Photoshop:D

3D: Newtek Lightwave 3D 7.5, because it's somewhat easy to learn and the results are unbelievable.
Too bad it costs up to $1500, but well worth it if you're a profitable designer.. BTW, if you're just starting out in 3D/Animation anim8or is the best free program you can get,IMO...www.anim8or.com

FLASH: Swish v2.0, because it's dirt cheap:D

DRAWING: Xara X, really cheap and easy to create smooth drawings, but the exporter sucks, and no support for Fireworks:(.. Although I think they do make a plugin to export to Photoshop...

Morgoth
01-21-2003, 01:26 PM
MS Paint works well for me.

http://www.uke.uni-hamburg.de/institute/imdm/idv/forschung/einfuehrung/3d.jpg

undyingfires
01-21-2003, 02:04 PM
Paint Shop (very much like PhotoShop but much cheaper o.o)
MS Paint still rules tho :p

Dreamweaver, Fireworks and Flash (if I'd sit down and actually learn that one :)

Allother lesser programs I have but hardly use go here too.

DaZ
01-21-2003, 02:46 PM
2D - Gotta be Flash for me, been using it for a while now.

not really decided on any 3D stuff to part with cash for, so learning OpenGL and C++ from scratch :<

brothercake
01-21-2003, 03:20 PM
I practically live in Photoshop 6. I also use Illustrator 10 for vector graphics, which includes a very nifty SVG export wizard.

This is not strictly speaking relevant, but Terragen (http://www.planetside.co.uk/terragen/) is way cool :thumbsup:

beetle
01-21-2003, 04:42 PM
That is a cool program there, Brothercake. Makes Bryce look old-fashioned for terrain renderings ;)

Photoshop all the way, baby. I've been with her since version 3 and I'll never be unfaithful. Version 7 is fantastic.

For the occasional vector-based work I require, there's enough vector tools present to keep me in Photoshop when I used to have to switch to Illustrator for such tasks. I hardly use Illustrator anymore. And if needs be, those Photoshop generated paths and shapes can be imported into Illustrator for finessing.

The last 3d program I used was TrueSpace 3. Not very popular but it was easy to use and was just a hobby-sort of thing.

mouse
01-21-2003, 06:00 PM
Photoshop 7.0 for most things although Flash can make some nice simple shapes for use in diagrams etc.

3D Studio Max 5 for 3D, it's unreal, has an excellent interface and beats its competition into the ground. Only Maya comes close but not close enough. I've used Truspace, it can render some pretty good photorealistic images, Lightwave is awful imo. I wasn't impressed by Cinema 4D either.

maes
01-21-2003, 07:58 PM
Originally posted by Morgoth
MS Paint works well for me.

http://www.uke.uni-hamburg.de/institute/imdm/idv/forschung/einfuehrung/3d.jpg
wow man, did you do that?
I'm impressed :thumbsup:

tell me, if you did draw that, did you do it pixel by pixel?

Where did you learn to do that?

I don't have a favoutit 2D/3D program, they all suck to me, but that is maybe because I just can't draw anything :(

Borgtex
01-21-2003, 09:14 PM
Fireworks for ever

beetle
01-21-2003, 09:15 PM
Originally posted by Borgtex
Fireworks for ever :eek: eeeeek! :eek: hehe

Morgoth
01-21-2003, 09:34 PM
Originally posted by maes
wow man, did you do that?
I'm impressed :thumbsup:

tell me, if you did draw that, did you do it pixel by pixel?

Where did you learn to do that?

I don't have a favoutit 2D/3D program, they all suck to me, but that is maybe because I just can't draw anything :(

LOL

Of course I didn't make that in MS Paint. I was playing around. I don't think anyone could unless they did do it pixel by pixel.

maes
01-21-2003, 10:05 PM
[homer simpson]
Doh
[/homer simpson]

now I feel like an *** :D

Xphp->UG-S<-
01-21-2003, 10:11 PM
Originally posted by Morgoth
LOL

Of course I didn't make that in MS Paint. I was playing around. I don't think anyone could unless they did do it pixel by pixel.

oh my that would also take a long time hehe :rolleyes: i'm going to try something like that one day but for my main graphics i still use paint but on the side i use fireworks mx :thumbsup: fullversion he he

pardicity3
01-22-2003, 12:01 AM
Brothercake put it best, Photoshop 6 is great. It took me a little bit to get used to--my sister got it free from college and I just started messing with it one day--but after the learning curve was over, my is it a wonderful program!

I have never messed with a 3D program mainly because of the cost vs. need. Most people I know with a good 3D program have it through illegal means, and that just isn't my way. I will second brothercake again and say that terragen is quite fun to mess around with, and it's free!! :D

Quiet Storm
01-22-2003, 12:39 AM
And no one meantions PaintShop Pro... why?

Mhtml
01-22-2003, 01:12 AM
DRAWING: Xara X, really cheap and easy to create smooth drawings, but the exporter sucks, and no support for Fireworks.. Although I think they do make a plugin to export to Photoshop...


Yay! Someone else uses it to! :)
Xara X, simply the best for vector IMO.
http://www.m5interactive.com/myimgs/screwtheworld.png
Although I am a lot better since I made that pic in the first few weeks of using it and now I'm up to my third year with it...:D
Not quite happy with it but it shows the power of xara x to some extent.

M5 fav image tools are everything I own which includes: Photoshop 6, PaintShop Pro 7, Xara X, 3D Studio MAX, Bryce 4, Fireworks MX, Freehand 10 and Illustrator 9.

Also I favour Flash MX (Well the whole studio if you can afford it) for flash work because IMO you can't beat the original.

beetle
01-22-2003, 01:18 AM
I got a 404 for both of your PNG links

Mhtml
01-22-2003, 01:24 AM
lol, I was hoping I'd have enough time to upload them before the thread was viewed again. :)

I could only find one of them to upload so I have edited my post.
:)

Morgoth
01-22-2003, 02:10 AM
I use Microsoft Image Composser, for all my doings, and I am damn good at it. But if I had the time and computer power, I'd try other stuff, and get to know it better.

nickbarresi
01-22-2003, 03:31 AM
Originally posted by mouse

3D Studio Max 5 for 3D, it's unreal, has an excellent interface and beats its competition into the ground. Only Maya comes close but not close enough. I've used Truspace, it can render some pretty good photorealistic images, Lightwave is awful imo. I wasn't impressed by Cinema 4D either.

I'd like to respectfully disagree about what you said about Lightwave, and would suggest that people check out the "Online Gallery" at Newtek's Lightwave web site before considering your opinion! (Especially the "Audi" concept vehicle)

Lightwave has always done it's job for me, quicker and easier than 3DSMax has (IMO). I've never used Maya, but it's not available for Windows 98/ME anyways, so :P on Maya.

beetle
01-22-2003, 04:01 AM
As far as the lightwave vs 3dstudio vs Maya thing goes, it seems to me that Lighwave and Maya are used more for movie special effects whereas 3dStudio has a larger use in the videogame industry, and well, many other industries, but not movies.

Yea? Nay?

nickbarresi
01-22-2003, 04:50 AM
Originally posted by beetle
As far as the lightwave vs 3dstudio vs Maya thing goes, it seems to me that Lighwave and Maya are used more for movie special effects whereas 3dStudio has a larger use in the videogame industry, and well, many other industries, but not movies.

Yea? Nay?

To my understanding, Lightwave and 3dsmax are used mostly for print, and video games, etc. And Maya is known for movies (Stewart Little, Hollowman, Spiderman, etc...)

Although I think companies like ILM use their own software! (must be expensive!)

3dsmax can do everything lightwave can do, but IMO lightwave comes with better rendering/plugins out of the box.

I've seen some pretty wicked independent movies just using lightwave animatiion, but most companies stick with Maya, don't know why, like I said, I have no experience with it..

beetle
01-22-2003, 04:59 AM
ILM uses Alias|Wavefront and Maya for the bulk of their work, however, they do make custom software for some stuff, like lip-synching and whatnot. After all, John Knoll works there, and in case you don't know, he's about 90% responsible for Adobe Photoshop :D

SoftImage is used for lots of character animation, I believe. You're right about Lightwave for print, but it has been used in Titantic and MiB, as well as some great games like Fallout.

ASAAKI
01-22-2003, 09:13 AM
Originally posted by Xphp->UG-S<-
oh my that would also take a long time hehe :rolleyes: i'm going to try something like that one day but for my main graphics i still use paint but on the side i use fireworks mx :thumbsup: fullversion he he

Yep, it does take a damn long time, me's almost 10 years experienced in that! ha! :D

anyway, i guess I like Photoshop the best.

I've got LW, just the demo version, but I can't make head or tail of it! I got SoftImage too, but couldn't even start making head or tail because i never managed to install it right :o
What I have got in 3D is Swift3d v3, not bad, not terrific, but very very good, IMO. at least for the price.

Morgoth
01-22-2003, 01:18 PM
I still stick with MS Paint being the best program.

megahertzman
01-23-2003, 04:51 AM
MS Paint??!! :p

2D: Flash MX and PSP7.

3D: Rhino3D by McNeel.

4D: I've only heard about them.

I checked out that 3D modeling tool posted above, the Terragen, and it seems cool! Best of all, it's free. And yes, I also don't like Bryce much either - and Poser.

megahertzman
01-23-2003, 04:52 AM
Oh yeah, and 3DS Max seems cool. I've never tried it but hope to soon. I just wish they had a trial version.

Skyzyx
01-23-2003, 06:30 AM
I'm a fan of Flash MX, LiveMotion 2, Fireworks MX, Director MX, Illustrator 10, Photoshop 7, LightWave 7.5, and 3ds max 5.

nickbarresi
01-23-2003, 03:49 PM
Megahertzman,

Do you know about Gmax? It's a free program from discreet. It has a lot of similarities to 3dsmax, but not exactly a demo:)

mouse
01-23-2003, 06:47 PM
Originally posted by nickbarresi
Megahertzman,

Do you know about Gmax? It's a free program from discreet. It has a lot of similarities to 3dsmax, but not exactly a demo:) Gmax is very similar to 3Dstudio max in its interface and modelling tools. The main problem is its lack of full rendering tools and it is limited in its saving/export formats.

You can get a 3Dstudio max demo by applying on the Discreet site or by asking at a 3Dstudio max vendor.

megahertzman
01-24-2003, 12:21 AM
Thanks. Gmax is new to me. It doesn't list XP but I think it'll work on that.

Soon, I think I will spend the money on the higher-level 3DS Max since I'm going into Industrial Design. Or maybe even the famous Maya. :D

One question: Why do some people model in one program and render in another - like from Rhino3D to 3DS Max, etc.?

nickbarresi
01-24-2003, 02:17 AM
Megahertz Man,

Some people prefer one program for 3d Modelling, and another for rendering...

For example, lightwave has one of the best renderers available (IMO of course), but some people don't like the lightwave modeler (Not me:) )

And vice-versa for different programs.

In my experience, lightwave is the best because it has two seperate programs for rendering/modeling, so it eats a bit less memory. 3DSMax is also really cool, and I've seen some great work from people who use only 3dsmax to model and render.

Get the demos and see what works best for you. It also depends on what you'll be making, if you make space ships/cars, etc, you may like one program better, or if you make people/faces (organic), you may prefer a different program.

mouse
01-24-2003, 02:19 AM
Rendering is important and some proggies do better than others. Rhino is very limited in terms of rendering and can produce some fairly poor images (strange scuff marks I've found) also things like lighting options, texturing and so on can be better in other programs.


Word of warning about Gmax; their server has been sending out invalid product key's, a registry hack is available though, I found it through the Gmax forum...

CRASH_OVERRIDE
01-27-2003, 12:16 AM
Anyone use GIMP? Nice program, but very very mesy with all of those windows.

1D - Line drawing program I wrote :D
2D - Corel PhotoPaint, Photoshop
3D - Dont do much of that, but GMax is fun to play with.
4D - I wish...

SYP}{ER
01-27-2003, 12:26 AM
2D: Photoshop 7, and on rare occasions: FWMX
3D: 3dsmax. I tried Maya but just kept missing 3dsmax too much and was too stubborn to try to learn anything about it :S Will give that another shot sometime I think.

megahertzman
01-27-2003, 12:55 AM
I have XP. Which GIMP do I download?

ftp://ftp.cs.umn.edu/pub/gimp/

CRASH_OVERRIDE
01-27-2003, 01:13 AM
You should be able to find something here:
http://www.gimp.org/~tml/gimp/win32/downloads.html

megahertzman
01-27-2003, 01:46 AM
Ah, forget GIMP. It's too confusing.

Morgoth
01-27-2003, 02:15 AM
Originally posted by megahertzman
Ah, forget GIMP. It's too confusing.

Confusing from the begining, but you will be able to use it easily with practice!

megahertzman
01-27-2003, 02:28 AM
Okay, okay. But which is the exact program I need to download from the link CRASH_OVERRIDE posted?

CRASH_OVERRIDE
01-27-2003, 03:00 AM
First install the gtk needed to run it, here:
ftp://ftp.arnes.si/software/gimp-win/gtk+-1.3.0-20020912-setup.zip

Then install the actual program, here:
ftp://ftp.arnes.si/software/gimp-win/gimp-1.2.4-20020907-setup-2.zip

It should work, because I installed it right as I typed this on my Win2000 Server

CRASH_OVERRIDE
01-27-2003, 03:02 AM
Also note that it's made to run on linux, so it will look a bit different in the Win environment.:)

Membie
01-30-2003, 11:19 AM
Severall progs are mentioned, but: Didn't notice This one... (http://pixologic.com/) yet.

Those who love 3D gotta love ZBrush (try the demo i've you 'dare') ;)

Greetings.

t-pot
06-05-2003, 06:20 PM
an old thread i know
but i was wondering how you do 2d and 3d under photoshop
ive seen some pretty sweet things done with it
but i have no idea how they are done

are there specific plugins?
is there a site with a tutorial for them?
i use bryce and for rendering
ms paint and ps for editing (i know a major waste for ps)
xara 3d for 3d text

bradyj
06-05-2003, 07:30 PM
<.02>
Vector 2D:
Illustrator 10<, Freehand MX< (on occasion), Quark Xpress, Fontographer
Vector 3D:
Perspective Plugin, CADintosh
Rasterized 2D:
Photoshop 7<, ProCreate Painter 6.1<
3D apps:
Lightwave, Strata 3D Studio Pro

Flash: Flash MX all the way (swish is not for Mac)

Wed Development: DreamWeaver MX, BBEdit, ImageReady, Iconographer
</.02>:D

bradyj
06-05-2003, 07:35 PM
2D and 3D under photoshop is all about understanding how to create perspective from your objects (for instance, I do all that in Illustrator and paste the paths in photoshop). Then applying paint for lighting, depth, color levels... etc.

It's a hard arguement, which way is easier. If you know your 3D, stick with those programs and do adjustments in a 2D rasterized program. If you know your 2D, it's faster that way.

It's fine art for computers, that's all:)

t-pot
06-06-2003, 02:52 AM
all and good but where are some tutorials?????

ive seen the graphics made with photoshop
they are far and beyond what i could do with bryce

illustrator tutorials

im enjoy making things in bryce
id like to extend it out

heres a site with some kickass pics in it
this stuff is what id like to create

http://www.digitalblasphemy.com/dbhome.shtml

beetle
06-06-2003, 03:59 AM
That guy probably uses about 10 different programs - the least of which is Photoshop.

mouse
06-06-2003, 08:44 AM
Photoshop is a finisher, it has 0 3D functionality, in fact drawing 3D on paper is easier as you can use a set square.

You'll find Cinema 4D is used quite a bit in the arty side of 3D, for its lighting effects mainly.

ionsurge
06-06-2003, 12:04 PM
Regarding Ryan Bliss' work, he does use a lot of software. The effects he creates are mainly done by Lightwave. Photoshop would honestly have little play on his work.

http://www.digitalblasphemy.com/3dsoftware.shtml

whackaxe
06-06-2003, 12:14 PM
GIMP all the way peeps. its free and as goos as PS. www.gimp.org and gug.sunsite.dk

ionsurge
06-06-2003, 04:52 PM
/me loves SoftImage | XSI 3.5 <drool>

bradyj
06-06-2003, 06:00 PM
They're all right that the web page you posted with the image was created mostly in 3D programs. You can tell that it looks fake, and that the texture is not rough enough to be natural.

However, you can create 3D Designs and layouts utilizing Photoshop and Illustrator. By creating perspective, controlling how you paint lighting/shadows/colors - you can create a 3D image. However, I think the confusion is the fact that you can't model. Photoshop will let you make a 3D look, that is flat. Not an adjustable model. Photoshop is just like a painter who can create depth and design in his canvas -- whereas the sculptor creates 3D models out of his choice media.

It's best to learn a little of both, I would say. 3D designers tend to make their work look a little 'fake' in that it doesn't have realistic colors/texture/etc. Whereas 2D designers tend not to pay enough attention to dynamic looks.

But you can make a 3D look in photoshop. That's the point.

t-pot
06-06-2003, 06:13 PM
thanks for the link ionsurge

i was looking for something like that

ionsurge
06-06-2003, 06:31 PM
@t-pot : no worries, happy to help. It is nice to see people are inspired by Ryan Bliss' work.

@Brady

3D designers tend to make their work look a little 'fake' in that it doesn't have realistic colors/texture/etc. Photoshop can give a limited extent of 3D realism. Being a 3D animator and graphics designer, have a look at this, and tell me if it looks fake and cannot be mistaken to be real.

http://www.mudsplat.com/seahorse_1.jpg

bradyj
06-06-2003, 07:34 PM
ionsurge:
Wasn't taking a shot at the minority or the majority here. I said tend -- and that would usually target landscape, VR, stuff like that... but I wasn't too specific with my target.

And, being a 3D designer and Graphic Designer myself, I'd say if that was yours it looks pretty damn good. But, many would argue if it is real -- when I look at it something feels off. Maybe it's the fact I don't see air bubbles, or that the submarine doesn't have as strong contrasting shadows as the seahorse. But that's nitpicking, you've done a great job and looks pretty darn real.

I'm not trying to get into a shot with it comparing notes and designs -- we can critique each others work all day. But both programs have their limitations and have a need to work together. The point was that Photoshop can do 3D and to the advanced painters looks pretty darn good... and that many 3D designs I see today tend to look fake in it's layout -- but not all, as you've shown. I would know, as our company is a design associate with Apple and Pixar (Pixar would be the building next to us).

ionsurge
06-07-2003, 11:41 AM
Granted, and agree. Oh and pixar rule all.

:D

bradyj
06-08-2003, 07:08 AM
Pixar rule indeed... sometimes it's scary -- but, hey we have some major competition out here as Lucas Light and Magic is a half hour drive away... in the scheme of things, they rule more.:D

I look forward to seeing your site when it's up ionsurge:thumbsup:

ionsurge
06-08-2003, 02:02 PM
Thank you bradyj.


:)

cg9com
06-09-2003, 02:31 PM
That's not real?!?!?!?
LOL!

ionsurge
06-09-2003, 03:14 PM
Completely computised... :)

whackaxe
06-09-2003, 05:50 PM
good lord, that must have taken more than 5 minutes to do :p



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